there have been incursions that I can recall at Stansted, Heathrow and Manchester during daylight hours, granted there was no damage to aircraft but that's hardly the point, if someone wants to break in somewhere they can and will, I'm not privy to the exact security set up at the airport so I'm not going to pass comment or judgement but to infer that this is a BHX only issue is well wide of the mark imo
Factually none of those incursions resulted in destruction of an aircraft...I would say THATS A HUGE POINT..
BHX are the only airport to lose an aircraft in such circumstances, when other airports fail as well to look after the aircraft they will also be under scrutiny. So in my honest opinion BHX do have questions to answer, but they will reply " we meet minimum security requirements" I refer to my previous post.
Untill those requirements are improved BHX and other airports will continue as they are.
I know a few who work at the helicopter and I can tell you they are working their nuts off driving to other bases so they can carry on doing their unsung work to cover the West Mids as best as possible using other air units helicopters, I wonder if they know they are appreciated so much, whilst they work through the night so the plod bashers can sleep easy...
For the benefit of any of the plod bashers reading this .... why don't you check this out :
I can't imagine there is anyone who doesn't support the excellent work the Police Helicopter team do for the community. We also know very well how much of a difference they have made in aircraft incidents over the years because they happen to be based at BHX and were available. It would be a terrible day if they moved and I hope those who have the authority to do whatever it needs to ensure the police helicopter stays and stays safely are getting on with it right now.
I recall a nut set a midland 145 alight at GLA a few years back all be it only causing minor damage.
ABZ had a drunk climb a fence and go to sleep in the back of a king air a while back. Funny it may be but lets face it people break into and out of prisons nothings imposiible! All we can do is assist the security services by doing our bit and keeping our eyes open! I recall at MAN there was a pilot scheme to provide spotters with an emergency call box in the popular spotting areas. Strange I grant you but lets face it there is almost always someone there and I for one would welcome them calling airfield police to report irregularities.
'Factually none of those incursions resulted in destruction of an aircraft...I would say THATS A HUGE POINT..
BHX are the only airport to lose an aircraft in such circumstances, when other airports fail as well to look after the aircraft they will also be under scrutiny. So in my honest opinion BHX do have questions to answer, but they will reply " we meet minimum security requirements" I refer to my previous post.
Untill those requirements are improved BHX and other airports will continue as they are.'
Volrider,
Your missing my point a little, an incursion of an international airport is always serious, howevr we've had mass incursions at Heathrow, Stansted and Manchester in daylight hours when in theory security should be at its maximum. What we're talking about here is a night time incursion to a near deserted part of an airport by presumably 1 or maybe 2 people in the dark. I would suggest a daylight mass incursion is far more significant in terms or risk and potential outcome then the incursion at BHX.
I'm sure that the crews, who until recently flew WMAO, appreciate the comments from the likes of call100 when they are landing in fields at 4am to save yet another life.
I'm convinced that those who are still alive because of the police helicopter being there for them in their time of need, are a bit more appreciative than some here!
If it was an air ambulance that was destroyed (don't forget, they don't operate in the dark), there would be nothing but condemnation, but because WMAO had 'Police' painted on her side, it's considered 'fair game' to have a bash and a laugh.
To the person at the time, and you know who you are, who sat in their 4x4 on the dispersal and said "Oh dear, you've lost your little toy then", before driving away,... please drive carefully!
Didn't a TV crew breach MAN airport security as supposed cleaners and get on board an aircraft, perhaps LHR also, the fact that they didn't 'torch' the aircraft is of insignificance, regardless of what took place at BHX a breaching of airport security perimeters is an all too regular occurrence such as those nutters at STN a year (ish) ago.
Shame on you all that celebrate November 5th, which other nutters would celebrate such a terrorist occurrence or is it only such occurrences in Brum that are to be frowned upon?
Well sid and Vol, your determination to single out myself seems to have made your argument stray. Sid. I don't recall making any comments against the work of the Police helicopter. You and Vol have miised the point entirely. Niether of you have actually made any sense. I have not claimed that security is perfect. I have not claimed it was not a major breech that should not have taken place.
I have said that no one was going to move because of it. I also said that the cost v risk evaluation would take precedence over your idealistic fort Knox scenario. The airport is a business going through a tough time. It's not going to throw money at the situation. The fence is a deterrent, not a barrier. It's the same type of fence as all other airports. This is not just a BHX situation. You seem to think that because the people responsible torched the aircraft at BHX the breech itself is different. It isn't they all have potentially the same outcome.
Obviously you have both decided that the personal attack adds strength to your points. That's fine, but it only makes you feel better, not look better.
Where was it the Police are moving to?
Call 118
I assume you dont understand fully the situation and continue to defend the airport, would that be a biased view i.e. you work there? If thats the case your loyalty is commendable if somewhat distorted, but hey, you believe what you wish. Don't let the truth change your viewpoint
Just a quick one, and nothing to do with the airport...
Phileas Fogg, the reason we celebrate November 5th in England is that a terrorist plot was foiled. We don't celebrate the plotter Guy Fawkes (though a lot of people think he was framed etc...) we burn him.
Last edited by johnnychips : 10th July 2009 at 03:01.
Reason: Elucidation
Call 118
I assume you dont understand fully the situation and continue to defend the airport, would that be a biased view i.e. you work there? If thats the case your loyalty is commendable if somewhat distorted, but hey, you believe what you wish. Don't let the truth change your viewpoint
You are still missing the point. You still believe it's just a BHX problem and that I don't understand the gravity of the incident. Wrong on both accounts. I do, however, have more of a grip on the reality of what the reaction has been. Regardless of what would be the ideal and perfect solution, should such exist, only two things will dictate, legislation and cost. That is where we are, the airport meets regulation, as for cost..........current economic climate etc. It may not be what you or I want, but, it's where we are.....
Riveting as it is, can't you guys just take this "discussion" (I use the word lightly as only one person seems to have any idea whats going on....) down the pub, if you're going to have to agree to disagree you will feel a whole lot better about it after a few pints than ranting and bitching on here - or else just start a new thread about BHX Security, there are for sure enough posts to fill more than a few pages.......
call 118-118 agreed we are at an impass as they say so will agree to differ I am sorry GayFriendly that the discussion has stopped chat about other things as you see it, I thought a thread called BIRMINGHAM under airports was about BHX and not just "look whats landed tonight" maybe you should consider such posts would be better put in the "spotters" forum and the BIRMINGHAM thread left to talk about issues at BHX ?
Great news about the PHL service continuing next year. I was amazed when it was announced in these uncertain economic times. Loads have been good and importantly good upfront so lets hope both business and leisure travelers continue to use the service.
Daza
GF. Apologies. You are correct. Finished with that one.
Daza. Yes, good news in a gloomy world. Proves that BHX still has lots of potential. Hopefully the new pier will tempt some more quality airlines. IMO it's not the prettiest building, but, the interior is excellent. Apparently the standard of all future refits.
Surprisingly, and compared with some other threads on AA+R, the BHX one is somewhat less "spotterish" than many.
Curiously, the spotter fraternity, down upon which you clearly look, are your eyes and ears around the airport perimeter. They are more likely, probably than police to spot unusual goings on since they spend a deal more time loitering there than the police do. CCTV is all well and good but you can't beat the mark one eyeball and human brain acting in close harmony.
Shame they didn't spot the cretins that burnt the chopper.
Curiously, the spotter fraternity, down upon which you clearly look
Quite wrong actually and I did not state that, I am for spotters or what ever the political correct term is... In fact when I was young I spent many a happy hour armed with my binos and ian allens aircraft reg book at as many airports I could get to.
Its a shame that my comment was taken in the wrong context. I agree and I know that the police use the eyes and ears of these folk and for good reason, lets face it someone who visits a certain location knows it well and would be the first to see soemthing wrong.
Am I forgiven
Loads have been good and importantly good upfront so lets hope both business and leisure travelers continue to use the service
Hear hear! Mind you, the forward bookings for this year are such that I'm finding difficulty in getting tickets on this service for late Aug/Sept on the dates that I want to travel. On the back of this I reckon that they could get away with a seven day service as originally planned. Must say that I was gutted when the WW Lisbon service ended from BHX so decided to try PHL and tootle around PA again before I'm nailed down in my box .
How WW could completely drop a five times a week service that on the face of it wasn't doing too badly and was building solidly (dunno about yields though!) on the many times that I used it and now only go from MAN twice weekly I'll never understand.
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