CORK - 5

[CCR]

gate 22. Cork city's boundaries haven't changed in 50 years, practically all its suburbs are outside the small city boundaries. To suggest it has only 190,000 people is laughable. The Cork metropolitan area including it's commuter towns is closer to double that. As someone who has lived in both cities, Belfast is larger but not significantly larger and by the way as has been said many times, a lot of Cork passenegers, especially from the county use Shannon for cheap Ryanair flights.

[840]

Belfast's airports don't really have any competition for passengers in Northern Ireland. City of Derry is there, but doesn't offer too many routes.

Cork is competing with Shannon and to a lesser extent Waterford, Kerry and even Dublin.

Perhaps the most realistic comparison is between the population of Northern Ireland (1.7 million IIRC) and Munster (1.2million) as potential catchment areas and then remembering that Cork shares that Munster catchment with Shannon.

[gate 22]

1 million + travel to Dublin for flights. Belfast is at least twice as large as Cork. Belfast metropolitan pop 750,000.

[gate 22]

Perhaps the most realistic comparison is between the population of Northern Ireland (1.7 million IIRC) and Munster (1.2million) as potential catchment areas and then remembering that Cork shares that Munster catchment with Shannon

Province of ulster - population 2 million

[840]

Possibly.

I stuck to NI because I couldn't really see someone from Monaghan or Cavan flying from Belfast. Between Dublin being as close, having more choice, no departure duty (yet) and the same currency, it doesn't seem a likely choice. I would imagine significant numbers of people from Donegal use Belfast though.

[Dougal McGuire]

Belfast metropolitan pop 750,000.-quote

Now, who is exagerating? your over a quarter of a million too high there! and belfast proper has a population of about 270,000.

[gate 22]

there is a wide range of stats on Belfast met pop, I suppose the official one is 579,000 for the continuous built up area, so I stand corrected, 750,000 is often quoted, but includes rural areas and outlying towns,

[en2r]

gate 22. Cork city's boundaries haven't changed in 50 years, practically all its suburbs are outside the small city boundaries. To suggest it has only 190,000 people is laughable. The Cork metropolitan area including it's commuter towns is closer to double that. As someone who has lived in both cities, Belfast is larger but not significantly larger and by the way as has been said many times, a lot of Cork passenegers, especially from the county use Shannon for cheap Ryanair flights.

Yes, theres been a long running saga running for years down here about expanding the city boundary. The sagas been ongoing for my entire lifetime anyway. Cork City Corporation want to more than double the size of Cork City but Cork County Council don't want to lose the valuable commercial rates income they receive from the Cork city Industrial estates (the vast majority of Cork City's industrial estates lie outside the city boundary). The real population of Cork city is much higher than the official figures suggest. Douglas for example, a suburb of Cork which lies outside the city boundary has 18,000 inhabitants. Not one of those inhabitants is counted in the official figures for the population of Cork. Cork is not significatly smaller than Belfast, however the hinterlands around Belfast are more heavily populated than the environs of Cork. The reason the figures for the airport are so much lower is that Munster has 4 international airports for 1.2 million people, Ulster has just 3 airports for circa 2 million people, its no surprise that the Belfast airports are carrying more than Cork.

[brian_dromey]

Any word on how discussions are proceeding regarding access to a European hub?

[Copenhagen]

Amazed that this hasent been posted here already. Correct decision too, as ORK and SNN cant pay their own way.

Dempsey indicates separate airport plans to be shelved - The Irish Times - Mon, Nov 17, 2008

... Noel Dempsey has given his clearest indication yet that he intends to shelve plans to complete separation of the three State airports, announced four years ago....

.... Mr Dempsey said he was awaiting a report from the Dublin Airport Authority (DAA) and would be able to decide on separation in three or four weeks. He said circumstances were much changed since the decision was first made....

Mr Dempsey said: "From the time that this decision was made, huge changes have taken place economically and in the aviation industry, and that obviously has to be reflected in the decision that is made."

[en2r]

Correct decision too, as ORK and SNN cant pay their own way.

Cork is a profitable airport. It has made profits of €25 million over the past 2 years. However because of the grossly unfair distribution of Aer Rianta assets (where the DAA basically got everything) and being forced to pay for the far too expensive terminal the DAA designed and built, ORK would only probably be breakeven for the next few years. Thats not to say that it couldn't pay its own way. SNN is a different story entirely.

[Copenhagen]

Less than a year ago the DAA were being slammed for not building all the airbridges, now you complain that you have too nice a terminal. Cake and eat it comes to mind.

People also forget about all the support the DAA gives to ORK, in terms of knowhow, in the same way that Southampton punches way over its weight because it has the support of the BAA. Cork's profit is because it has zero debt of its own on its books - every other company in Ireland would like this positioning.

[en2r]

Less than a year ago the DAA were being slammed for not building all the airbridges, now you complain that you have too nice a terminal. Cake and eat it comes to mind.

The DAA designed a very expensive terminal, then cut corners afterwards resulting in a ridiculous situation of an airport terminal that cost over €100 million yet has only one airbridge. What should have happened is that a more modest terminal with airbridges was designed from day 1.

People also forget about all the support the DAA gives to ORK, in terms of knowhow, in the same way that Southampton punches way over its weight because it has the support of the BAA.

Support????? Like how the DAA tried to sell the land bank around Cork Airport which would have left the airport landlocked, and would have prevented any further expansion. Or the time the DAA didn't tell SNN that EI were going to withdraw SNN-LHR, a fact which was known well in advance by the DAA. The DAA do not care about ORK or SNN, their sole concern is DUB.

Cork's profit is because it has zero debt of its own on its books - every other company in Ireland would like this positioning.

But the thing is that as part of the breakup of Aer Rianta, Cork was meant to be made debt free on independence while the DAA would keep all Aer Rianta's assets which I believe were worth about €1 billion at the time. However the commitment to Cork was later reneged, but the DAA still got to keep all the assets (most of which it has since sold).

[Copenhagen]

Why does cork deserve something for free? Is cork a charity case?



Dublin, Cork and Shannon are better as a unit.

[en2r]

Why does cork deserve something for free? Is cork a charity case?

Well why does Dublin deserve all the Aer Rianta assets? Is Dublin a charity case?

[Copenhagen]

Aer Rianta is an Irish state company, not a dublin company if I recall. As far as I know Cork is in Ireland.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

I also believe that Cork and Shannon got new terminals before Dublin, where they are still waiting for one.

[vkid]

"Dublin, Cork and Shannon are better as a unit."

For who, the DAA?

"I also believe that Cork and Shannon got new terminals before Dublin, where they are still waiting for one."

Shannon's refurbed and extended terminal cost 29million in 2002, complete and utter pittance in comparison to either Cork or the Taj Mahal Dublin's getting

[en2r]

Aer Rianta is an Irish state company, not a dublin company if I recall. As far as I know Cork is in Ireland.

But Aer Rianta no longer exists, the DAA (Dublin Airport Authority in case you don't know) got all the assets, Cork got none and on top of that was asked to pay for the terminal the DAA built.

I also believe that Cork and Shannon got new terminals before Dublin, where they are still waiting for one.

While technically Dublin has yet to get a new terminal, it has got a number of Piers over the years, Pier D was opened just last year. The original terminal now forms only a very small part of Pier A where Aer Arann, BA Cityflyer or Cityjet flights depart from.

[Copenhagen]

List of Best Airports in Ireland

1. Cork
2. Shannon
3. Dublin

Keep forgetting that 'dublin' keep looking after themselves.

If you ever want to see that Cork gets equal support from the state airport company, just look at the quality of the terminals, car parks, etc. The airport is a pleasure to fly from....

[Aisle2c]

Originally Posted by Copenhagen

Less than a year ago the DAA were being slammed for not building all the airbridges, now you complain that you have too nice a terminal. Cake and eat it comes to mind.

People also forget about all the support the DAA gives to ORK, in terms of knowhow, in the same way that Southampton punches way over its weight because it has the support of the BAA. Cork's profit is because it has zero debt of its own on its books - every other company in Ireland would like this positioning.

Are you sure you aren't a DAA board member ? A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing ...

Shannon's terminal = €29m

Cork's Terminal = €220m

Dublin's Terminal = an estimated €2,000m which will be a monument to lunacy.

Originally Posted by Copenhagen

Aer Rianta is an Irish state company, not a dublin company if I recall. As far as I know Cork is in Ireland.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Yes, you are wrong.

Aer Rianta is an Irish semi-state company which is politically controlled from Dublin. They have never had the interests of anyone but their own little kingdom, at heart. It is, simply, a plaything of Fianna Fail. Cork has never received fair play from Aer Rianta, it was always crumbs from the master's table.

The only person who ever really tried to sort out the corrupt mess that is Aer Rianta, was Seamus Brennan when he was Minister. It was he who decided, correctly, that the Airports should be broken up and that Cork & Shannon should start on a debt free basis because all the assets of Aer Rianta were going to be transferred to the DAA. Those assets are worth about €1,000m. Can you not understand that ?

Shannon and Cork will never match Dublin for passenger numbers because they simply don't have the hinterland population but they can operate successfully in a fair and free environment.

If you knew anything about Ireland, you would know that Noel Dempsey is a Fianna Fail yes man, who does what he is told. He should have been sacked for total incompetence on a number of occasions, not least when he used €60m of public money to buy rubbish e-voting machines. However, in Fianna Fail, being a henchman and the ability to say yes, is valued above incompetence.