CORK - 5
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I disagree so much.
Cork has proven it has the market for other airlines, it has proved this ~2007. The loss of these routes would be completely down to a lack of advertising. Nobody knew about them! After the cancellation of the first few flights, CSA Czech airlines and Prague airport put together a small marketing fund (Cork was not involved at all), but was only aimed at the Internet.
The refusal of Cork to advertise the routes have lead to their loss, nothing more. Not much has changed since 2004/5/6/7. Ryanair have gotten less aggressive if anything IMO. Its likely that they wouldn't have touched the Prague route. Flag airlines can go to Cork, but they made a balls of this right from the start.
Cork has proven it has the market for other airlines, it has proved this ~2007. The loss of these routes would be completely down to a lack of advertising. Nobody knew about them! After the cancellation of the first few flights, CSA Czech airlines and Prague airport put together a small marketing fund (Cork was not involved at all), but was only aimed at the Internet.
The refusal of Cork to advertise the routes have lead to their loss, nothing more. Not much has changed since 2004/5/6/7. Ryanair have gotten less aggressive if anything IMO. Its likely that they wouldn't have touched the Prague route. Flag airlines can go to Cork, but they made a balls of this right from the start.
Cork has proven it has the market for other airlines, it has proved this ~2007
The loss of these routes would be completely down to a lack of advertising.
The refusal of Cork to advertise the routes have lead to their loss, nothing more
Flag airlines can go to Cork
but they made a balls of this right from the start
The number of large population centers within 2 hours flying of Ireland that would sustain regular services outside of Dublin is very few.
Perhaps the people who made a balls of this are the traveling public who did not support this?
Not much has changed since 2004/5/6/7
2015 is a different era.
Join Date: Mar 2005
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We don't know the effectiveness of advertising because it didn't happen.
However, the management at Cork Airport should have pulled out all the stops for this because
- Its apparent failure will have a significant negative impact on the ability to attract other carriers
- It would also have given an opportunity to learn about the effectiveness of marketing.
Really, there was nothing tried. It costs less than €1,000 to put an ad on the back of a bus and half the city would have seen it. They don't even seem to realize that every time they put out a press release about a new route the local papers will reprint it because it saves them looking for a story.
@Una Due Tfc Cork doesn't exactly have the rural profile that you have been referring to. Unemployment has actually reduced more rapidly in the South-West than in Dublin over the last few years. What may be more relevant is that the numbers of Eastern Europeans is significantly lower than in 2007 (this actually happened by 2011 and has since stabilized) and that those who have remained tend to be more settled, with families, and less likely to take a trip home.
However, the management at Cork Airport should have pulled out all the stops for this because
- Its apparent failure will have a significant negative impact on the ability to attract other carriers
- It would also have given an opportunity to learn about the effectiveness of marketing.
Really, there was nothing tried. It costs less than €1,000 to put an ad on the back of a bus and half the city would have seen it. They don't even seem to realize that every time they put out a press release about a new route the local papers will reprint it because it saves them looking for a story.
@Una Due Tfc Cork doesn't exactly have the rural profile that you have been referring to. Unemployment has actually reduced more rapidly in the South-West than in Dublin over the last few years. What may be more relevant is that the numbers of Eastern Europeans is significantly lower than in 2007 (this actually happened by 2011 and has since stabilized) and that those who have remained tend to be more settled, with families, and less likely to take a trip home.
Join Date: Nov 2014
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I disagree so much.
Cork has proven it has the market for other airlines, it has proved this ~2007. The loss of these routes would be completely down to a lack of advertising. Nobody knew about them! After the cancellation of the first few flights, CSA Czech airlines and Prague airport put together a small marketing fund (Cork was not involved at all), but was only aimed at the Internet.
The refusal of Cork to advertise the routes have lead to their loss, nothing more. Not much has changed since 2004/5/6/7. Ryanair have gotten less aggressive if anything IMO. Its likely that they wouldn't have touched the Prague route. Flag airlines can go to Cork, but they made a balls of this right from the start.
Cork has proven it has the market for other airlines, it has proved this ~2007. The loss of these routes would be completely down to a lack of advertising. Nobody knew about them! After the cancellation of the first few flights, CSA Czech airlines and Prague airport put together a small marketing fund (Cork was not involved at all), but was only aimed at the Internet.
The refusal of Cork to advertise the routes have lead to their loss, nothing more. Not much has changed since 2004/5/6/7. Ryanair have gotten less aggressive if anything IMO. Its likely that they wouldn't have touched the Prague route. Flag airlines can go to Cork, but they made a balls of this right from the start.
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From 2008-2015*Only comprehensive for ORK. Lots of details missing for SNN and NOC. SNN used to have centralwings to somewhere, and a route to belarus I think with another airline.
*Falcon Charters from SNN and ORK are still going to this day. Sunway also operate charter from SNN,ORK and NOC to Izmir this year.
*Germanwings at NOC last year.
*Helvetic Airlines at SNN at the moment
*Jet2.com at ORK in 2012.
*Air Southwest at ORK to Newquay and Plymouth
*Manx2 at ORK (Wouldnt exactly call it sucessful)
*BMI baby at ORK to MAN at 2010.
*Sky Europe at ORK to Bratislava.
Keep in mind none of these are earlier than 2008.
I was hoping to write a more comprehensive list but quite frankly I got too bored so I left it at this.
*Falcon Charters from SNN and ORK are still going to this day. Sunway also operate charter from SNN,ORK and NOC to Izmir this year.
*Germanwings at NOC last year.
*Helvetic Airlines at SNN at the moment
*Jet2.com at ORK in 2012.
*Air Southwest at ORK to Newquay and Plymouth
*Manx2 at ORK (Wouldnt exactly call it sucessful)
*BMI baby at ORK to MAN at 2010.
*Sky Europe at ORK to Bratislava.
Keep in mind none of these are earlier than 2008.
I was hoping to write a more comprehensive list but quite frankly I got too bored so I left it at this.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
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It's hardly inspiring, is it? BmiBaby, CentralWings and SkyEurope are all history, Germanwings only lasted a year. ORK-Belfast has never returned. The only route which has been picked up is ORK-NCL, even then only twice weekly on an ATR.
Sadly, I don't think ORK has proved that services are sustainable outside the UK and major European hubs and sun-spots. Until the motorway is ripped up its probably as convenient to drive or bus to Dublin rather than connect elsewhere.
Sadly, I don't think ORK has proved that services are sustainable outside the UK and major European hubs and sun-spots. Until the motorway is ripped up its probably as convenient to drive or bus to Dublin rather than connect elsewhere.
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From 2008-2015*Only comprehensive for ORK. Lots of details missing for SNN and NOC. SNN used to have centralwings to somewhere, and a route to belarus I think with another airline.
*Falcon Charters from SNN and ORK are still going to this day. Sunway also operate charter from SNN,ORK and NOC to Izmir this year.
*Germanwings at NOC last year.
*Helvetic Airlines at SNN at the moment
*Jet2.com at ORK in 2012.
*Air Southwest at ORK to Newquay and Plymouth
*Manx2 at ORK (Wouldnt exactly call it sucessful)
*BMI baby at ORK to MAN at 2010.
*Sky Europe at ORK to Bratislava.
Keep in mind none of these are earlier than 2008.
I was hoping to write a more comprehensive list but quite frankly I got too bored so I left it at this.
*Falcon Charters from SNN and ORK are still going to this day. Sunway also operate charter from SNN,ORK and NOC to Izmir this year.
*Germanwings at NOC last year.
*Helvetic Airlines at SNN at the moment
*Jet2.com at ORK in 2012.
*Air Southwest at ORK to Newquay and Plymouth
*Manx2 at ORK (Wouldnt exactly call it sucessful)
*BMI baby at ORK to MAN at 2010.
*Sky Europe at ORK to Bratislava.
Keep in mind none of these are earlier than 2008.
I was hoping to write a more comprehensive list but quite frankly I got too bored so I left it at this.
Join Date: Nov 2014
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I presented more than enough data to prove my point and looking through Wikipedia archives are a long painful task.
Your claim was.
Cork has proven it has the market for other airlines, it has proved this ~2007. The loss of these routes would be completely down to a lack of advertising.
Most of the services you listed failed not through the lack of adverting but through the lack of a sustainable market.
It is one thing to launch a route with all the advertising in the world.
It is another to sustain it.
The landscape of the Irish aviation scene is littered with failed startups and tried routes.
The core business outside of Dublin is in the main UK access and holiday flights.
There are niche operations beyond this but not many.
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You posted a list of airlines that served Cork at some stage.
Your claim was.
Most of the services you listed failed not through the lack of adverting but through the lack of a sustainable market.
It is one thing to launch a route with all the advertising in the world.
It is another to sustain it.
The landscape of the Irish aviation scene is littered with failed startups and tried routes.
The core business outside of Dublin is in the main UK access and holiday flights.
There are niche operations beyond this but not many.
Your claim was.
Most of the services you listed failed not through the lack of adverting but through the lack of a sustainable market.
It is one thing to launch a route with all the advertising in the world.
It is another to sustain it.
The landscape of the Irish aviation scene is littered with failed startups and tried routes.
The core business outside of Dublin is in the main UK access and holiday flights.
There are niche operations beyond this but not many.
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So Cork gave the airline free airport charges and access to the marketing fund - yet Aer Ryan (or should I say TTT) wants the cherry on top.
I will wager that as Cork is an outbound market the cost of building a brand is simply not sustainable unless you are Aer Lingus, Ryanair or have a major hub to feed (LH, AF, DL)
I will wager that as Cork is an outbound market the cost of building a brand is simply not sustainable unless you are Aer Lingus, Ryanair or have a major hub to feed (LH, AF, DL)
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All, interesting discussion. I guess the point being made here is the longer term sustainability of European air access to the south west and west for that matter without a clear national policy position. Are we to accept then that in the future all inbound business/tourism connectivity has to land in Dublin to make it sustainable for airlines under current national aviation policy? If so then by default Dublin airport and it's surrounds will continue to grow and develop and the regions will always struggle benefit from a larger share of international tourism and business connectivity.....unless there is direct Government policy intervention to enable this....as has happened at other airports in the forms of marketing and route development funds and debt restructurings...
Are we to accept then that in the future all inbound business/tourism connectivity has to land in Dublin to make it sustainable for airlines under current national aviation policy?
The discussion document for a "National Aviation Policy for Ireland" has been done.
You are a year too late.
Many of the respondents considered that Dublin Airport is the only airport in the State which could be described as critical to national business and tourism needs. It handles 80% of all passengers into and out of the State and 85% of air freight.
POLICY PROPOSALS
4.3.1 Dublin Airport will be promoted as a secondary hub airport.
4.3.2 The roles of Shannon and Cork airports as key tourism and business gateways for their regions will be supported.
4.3.3 The work of all relevant State agencies, particularly in tourism marketing and trade development, will be coordinated to identify new route opportunities for Ireland.
4.3.4 Ireland will further develop the visa system to ease tourism and business travel to Ireland.
4.3.1 Dublin Airport will be promoted as a secondary hub airport.
4.3.2 The roles of Shannon and Cork airports as key tourism and business gateways for their regions will be supported.
4.3.3 The work of all relevant State agencies, particularly in tourism marketing and trade development, will be coordinated to identify new route opportunities for Ireland.
4.3.4 Ireland will further develop the visa system to ease tourism and business travel to Ireland.
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...the regions will always struggle benefit from a larger share of international tourism and business connectivity...
Power slams O?Leary | Limerick Post Newspaper
Shannon Airport executive <...> Declan Power <...> “We had a Ryanair base. We had 32 destinations with Ryanair, 22 of them were to Europe and 80% were outbound. They weren’t really getting the tourists in."
Shannon Airport executive <...> Declan Power <...> “We had a Ryanair base. We had 32 destinations with Ryanair, 22 of them were to Europe and 80% were outbound. They weren’t really getting the tourists in."
http://www.wdc.ie/wp-content/uploads...evelopment.pdf page 28
The vast majority of tourists enter Ireland through Dublin and Table 2.7 serves to highlight the importance of the road network in distributing visitors around the country. There is clearly scope to increase throughput at Knock, City of Derry, Shannon and other airports. However, it is likely that the majority of visitors to the west will continue to access the region from the East coast.
The vast majority of tourists enter Ireland through Dublin and Table 2.7 serves to highlight the importance of the road network in distributing visitors around the country. There is clearly scope to increase throughput at Knock, City of Derry, Shannon and other airports. However, it is likely that the majority of visitors to the west will continue to access the region from the East coast.
http://itic.ie/fileadmin/docs/New_Di...s_-__Final.pdf page 4
Almost 7 out of every 10 overseas holiday visitors to the west currently arrive in Ireland via an east coast gateway. These holidaymakers account for 80% of overseas holiday bednights in the west.
Almost 7 out of every 10 overseas holiday visitors to the west currently arrive in Ireland via an east coast gateway. These holidaymakers account for 80% of overseas holiday bednights in the west.
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For business users it is very much an obstacle.
I am yet to come across anyone in the business world who has opted to fly into Dublin and take a bus for 3 1/2 hours rather than connect in Heathrow, Amsterdam etc.
It is a barrier to investment in regions outside Dublin.
Unfortunately, the role of Minister for Transport has been pretty much reserved for Dublin and its commuter belt in recent decades. That's probably understandable considering it's the only place in the country where transport issues will actually sway votes. However, with the parish pump nature of Irish politics, they have promoted the interests of their local area.
I am yet to come across anyone in the business world who has opted to fly into Dublin and take a bus for 3 1/2 hours rather than connect in Heathrow, Amsterdam etc.
It is a barrier to investment in regions outside Dublin.
Unfortunately, the role of Minister for Transport has been pretty much reserved for Dublin and its commuter belt in recent decades. That's probably understandable considering it's the only place in the country where transport issues will actually sway votes. However, with the parish pump nature of Irish politics, they have promoted the interests of their local area.
