CORK - 5
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Cork, Ireland
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Advertising on 96FM is easy - how much hard work does that take? I venture not much and yet it may be perceived as doing one's little bit.
I am sorry but I must disagree with Brian and Copenhagen - I do think Dublin's new Terminal, T2, is a factor in Cork not being able realise some new business. Cork and Dublin are both DAA managed and it seems to me that Cork now counts for so little and as long as the slightest new business can be drawn in to Dublin to make them look good and have full terminals, full shops, full car parks of vehicles from Cork the provinces, full hotels etc the agenda is satisfied and stuff Cork and for that matter, snn.
It seems to me that the DAA and Dublin want it all for themselves and a dumbed down Cork suits the purpose.
The best airport in Ireland and the best regional airport in Europe means little if new business, even if seasonal only, cannot be realised if it seems as above Cork is all ready handicapped by having at least one of it's hands tied behind it's back. Also, there must be a reality check here - John Smyth has now been gone from Cork Airport a few years and it is up to the folk there now to get on with the job and the best of luck to them at it too and if some help is needed that is fine - get themselves surrounded by other people who know the business to help.
What Cork needs a little less of is where a particular yellow line is drawn or where a double red line is drawn if it means Cork losing some new business even if it might only be an occasional diversion flight coming across the Atlantic.
I am sorry but I must disagree with Brian and Copenhagen - I do think Dublin's new Terminal, T2, is a factor in Cork not being able realise some new business. Cork and Dublin are both DAA managed and it seems to me that Cork now counts for so little and as long as the slightest new business can be drawn in to Dublin to make them look good and have full terminals, full shops, full car parks of vehicles from Cork the provinces, full hotels etc the agenda is satisfied and stuff Cork and for that matter, snn.
It seems to me that the DAA and Dublin want it all for themselves and a dumbed down Cork suits the purpose.
The best airport in Ireland and the best regional airport in Europe means little if new business, even if seasonal only, cannot be realised if it seems as above Cork is all ready handicapped by having at least one of it's hands tied behind it's back. Also, there must be a reality check here - John Smyth has now been gone from Cork Airport a few years and it is up to the folk there now to get on with the job and the best of luck to them at it too and if some help is needed that is fine - get themselves surrounded by other people who know the business to help.
What Cork needs a little less of is where a particular yellow line is drawn or where a double red line is drawn if it means Cork losing some new business even if it might only be an occasional diversion flight coming across the Atlantic.
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dublin
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- I do think Dublin's new Terminal, T2, is a factor in Cork not being able realise some new business
Aer Lingus, Delta, United, Eithad, Emirates, American, US Ariwasys use T2. They used T1 for years before T2 opened and they still didn't want Cork (besides EI). All new carriers to DUB will be using T1 apart from Long Haul carriers. What you are saying is these carrriers would of moved to Cork if T2 wasn't opened??
So how is T2 affecting Cork? Could you explain. You realy need to get a grip..
What is affecting Cork is the majority of people only want UK and Sun routes and for the few who want others, there isn't enough demand for it. Cork has discounts for new operators that come into the airport (the same as DUB ones) but they still don't want to operarte from there. Are the CAA talking to any airlines or are they just waiting for airlines to comt to CAA as they won't.
Aer Lingus are doing enough fo the airport but FR are doing fu*k all but driving out operators such as charters and affecting EI sun routes.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ireland
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The new motorways have brought Cork and certainly Shannon into the Dublin extended catchment area. That combined with the recession has seriously damaged the two smaller airports.
While I don't go along with the view that the DAA are conspiring to undermine Cork, the reality is that there is absolutely no incentive for them to boost traffic there as any increase is almost certainly going to be at the expense of Dublin.
In some ways it is comparable to the situation in the UK where foreign airlines stubbornly refuse to fly to Stansted, Gatwick, Luton and Birmingham due to the massive drawing power of Heathrow.
There is also the painful reality that apart from CSA and Malev for a brief period during the last decade, no European flag carrier has ever showed an interest in operating scheduled services to Cork.
Lufthansa, Iberia, Air France and SAS have probably concluded that the Market is simply too small to take on EI and FR on one of their homes bases.
While I don't go along with the view that the DAA are conspiring to undermine Cork, the reality is that there is absolutely no incentive for them to boost traffic there as any increase is almost certainly going to be at the expense of Dublin.
In some ways it is comparable to the situation in the UK where foreign airlines stubbornly refuse to fly to Stansted, Gatwick, Luton and Birmingham due to the massive drawing power of Heathrow.
There is also the painful reality that apart from CSA and Malev for a brief period during the last decade, no European flag carrier has ever showed an interest in operating scheduled services to Cork.
Lufthansa, Iberia, Air France and SAS have probably concluded that the Market is simply too small to take on EI and FR on one of their homes bases.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Clare
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The motorway to Dublin has certainly benefited Dublin at the expense of SNN anyway. I'm based in Ennis and only use SNN for UK and USA flights. I could not bear the thought of commuting to European cities via LHR on a weekly basis. Several faces I recognise that used the SNN- CDG route now also drive to DUB.
For SNN and ORK to grow with more direct routes they need to attract the airlines with the 50- 80 RJ type capacity.
For SNN and ORK to grow with more direct routes they need to attract the airlines with the 50- 80 RJ type capacity.
Join Date: Jul 2011
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Lufthansa, Iberia, Air France and SAS have probably concluded that the Market is simply too small to take on EI and FR on one of their homes bases.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ireland
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And if Ryanair didn't start it, Aerlingus probably would. Problem for overseas carriers is that the vast majority of traffic between Ireland and the rest of the World is done by Irish people and the Irish have very strong brand loyalty to Aerlingus and strong brand recognition of Ryanair.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ireland
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So how is T2 affecting Cork? Could you explain. You realy need to get a grip..
I agree with Copenhagen and Brian, Cork has huge potential but is failing on its own to market the routes - I'll give you an example.. when bmibaby launched East Midlands to/from Cork in December of 2009 they done absolutely no marketing what so ever besides on their own website and inflight magazine, now if I was working in the Marketing Dept at Cork wouldn't you think I along with my colleagues should try fund marketing for the route via Social Media and Radio etc was it done though? No it wasn't and the route was pulled along with the existing Manchester route within 3 months of its launch, quite a disaster for the CAA who had no one else but themselves to blame. Cork could open/re-open routes to Budapest, Madrid, Prague, Vienna, Zurich etc.. quite easily if it found the carrier gave them a realistic deal and actually marketed the route.
I'm not trying to demote Shannon when I say any new carrier which expresses interest in operating to/from Ireland are going to want to fly to either Dublin or Cork simply because both destinations actually market themselves as they are well known Internationally, Shannon however is a small village inbetween two cities and it is always going to struggle to find new European business to prove this an example - Knock changed its name to Ireland West Airport Knock it provided realistic route opportunities and markets routes very well, result? yes European expansion the introduction of a well known UK regional airline Flybe and a European legacy carrier - Lufthansa. Cork can do all this and more if it markets routes and provides realistic opportunities but it is failing to do this and I hope they change this situation fast because they've done themselves proud recently with returning the Brussels route but they need to continue to market the route and further exacerbate its current success if it is to be maintained.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
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I think there is potential, but until such time as Cork has to pay its own way/meet targets most of it will not be realised.
I agree that road links to Dublin and Shannon can hurt Cork, but road do work in two directions. Incentives in terms of airport car parking "drive & fly deals" etc could all help to pull punters down the M8. Of course ORK competes with DUB, but airports like Leeds continue to add airlines and routes despite the economic climate, UK APD, stiff competition from MAN, LPL, EMA to a lesser extent NCL, Teeside, even BHX and STN/LGW/LHR, depending on the journey, the poor (and they really are poor) road/rail connections to LBA and the tired terminal building. Compared to LBA, ORK has so much going for it in terms of infrastructure, great road links and direct links to the Train and Bus stations, it is also in the heart of an area with many tourist attractions, but most seem to come in from Dublin.
I agree that road links to Dublin and Shannon can hurt Cork, but road do work in two directions. Incentives in terms of airport car parking "drive & fly deals" etc could all help to pull punters down the M8. Of course ORK competes with DUB, but airports like Leeds continue to add airlines and routes despite the economic climate, UK APD, stiff competition from MAN, LPL, EMA to a lesser extent NCL, Teeside, even BHX and STN/LGW/LHR, depending on the journey, the poor (and they really are poor) road/rail connections to LBA and the tired terminal building. Compared to LBA, ORK has so much going for it in terms of infrastructure, great road links and direct links to the Train and Bus stations, it is also in the heart of an area with many tourist attractions, but most seem to come in from Dublin.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ireland
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DAA will veto any attempts by Cork to offer more attractive terms to airlines and car owners. Hard to blame them as they don't want to have the two airports canibalise each other. It's always difficult to quantify the benefit of providing marketing support to airlines. I'm all for well thought out campaigns but some airlines seem only interested in a form of Hello Money and this may have no long term benefit.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ireland
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Sonda as if DAA are going to let Shannon off debt free. Any chance of a similar deal for Cork. The local FG and LAB TD's were very vocal about the airport when they were in opposition. Time to put the pressure on the Minister and the DAA now lads!
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dublin
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Its the airlines who decide which airport to fly from and not the DAA. The DAA have done nothing major to get airlines to increase flights at DUB. That has come from the airlines themselves. If LH wanted to fly FRA from Cork they would but they don't and its not the DAA's fault as its down to the airline. I will accept to an extent that DAA will put Dublin in front of Cork only for new routes/carriers that are not served from Dublin, but I don't accept that airlines are not flying from Cork becasue of Dublin and the Terminals. Cork should be looking to Germanwings or Air Berlin and not full service carriers as a low cost carrier has a higher chance of making the route from Cork work.
DUB can cater for 35 million and the DAA will not reach this any day soon.....
At the end of the day around 75-80% of air traffic to/from Ireland comes from Aer Lingus, Aer Lingus Regional and Ryanair and then airlines have to put up with Ryanair who in most cases start the same route to get the new carrier to drop it and then in time they will drop it.
I agree that Cork and Shannon should be split from the DAA (not debit free) but I don't see any major changes in terms of routes and airlines.
I agree with Ryan 2000 post that airlines have concluded that the Market is simply too small to take on EI and FR on one of their homes bases.
DUB can cater for 35 million and the DAA will not reach this any day soon.....
At the end of the day around 75-80% of air traffic to/from Ireland comes from Aer Lingus, Aer Lingus Regional and Ryanair and then airlines have to put up with Ryanair who in most cases start the same route to get the new carrier to drop it and then in time they will drop it.
I agree that Cork and Shannon should be split from the DAA (not debit free) but I don't see any major changes in terms of routes and airlines.
I agree with Ryan 2000 post that airlines have concluded that the Market is simply too small to take on EI and FR on one of their homes bases.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ireland
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Its the airlines who decide which airport to fly from and not the DAA.
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Callas Berrings CO cork
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Francis OMahony
MOVABLE FEAST
Just read an artical on SNN web page summer season starts
and that snn would cater for 28,000 pax for easter which easter?
easter was three weeks ago and one would expect that they would
have the pax no's counted by now
Just read an artical on SNN web page summer season starts
and that snn would cater for 28,000 pax for easter which easter?
easter was three weeks ago and one would expect that they would
have the pax no's counted by now
Join Date: Jul 2011
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Aer lingus have closed reservations for flights to LGW after 27 October. It was on sale until recently.
(Better be careful what I write as people may blane Dublin and DAA for the route being canceled)
(Better be careful what I write as people may blane Dublin and DAA for the route being canceled)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ireland nowadays
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I wouldn't get too stressed about Gatwick disappearing yet.
A number of routes from both Cork and Belfast have become unbookable, which suggests there may have been some truth in jack1985's post of a few weeks ago where he suggested that there could be some rejigging of aircraft between the two bases.
A number of routes from both Cork and Belfast have become unbookable, which suggests there may have been some truth in jack1985's post of a few weeks ago where he suggested that there could be some rejigging of aircraft between the two bases.
