IRELAND WEST AIRPORT KNOCK

[mart901]

I will say there is some truth in this, if you look at EIR on a lot of routes their starting fares
are £70-£80 return. Indeed FR are very competitive - at times. Dont however expect £20 return to last forever. There is no profit in that whatsoever. You mention BHX, I will give you an example, since some point last year FR and EI have been engaged in a fares war and even EI have £19 one ways in place this long time. However for a period of years even prior FR had been cutting capacity and at times starting fares were £70 return and often EI were undercutting them and had become dominant.
BHX-NOC seems to work best with a low cost carrier, MYTlite and WW both had their success in terms of pax numbers and I wouldn't doubt FR would.

[iwak]

I think ei 4 weekly service on a w rotation from dublin would work.An a319 would be ideal

[Kinocker]

I think the argument here is missing the key point that Knock has sustained a regular service to the English midlands for years and continues to do so throughout 2015. Shannon, on the other hand, has not been able to sustain a regular service to this region which is currently unserved from that airport. If such a large market existed for routes from Shannon to this region as is claimed I'm sure either Birmingham or East Midlands would be served at this time. Nonetheless, I'm sure some airline will make another attempt to operate a route to the region from Shannon in the future.

[fivejuliet]

EI Regional- SNN-BHX 2010-2015
Ryanair- SNN-BHX- 2007-2010
Ryanair SNN-EMA 2004(?)-2007
Flybe/Jersey European SNN-BHX way back-2004

No, not a market from SNN to the Midlands

The point is both SNN and NOC have both had such routes historically and can continue to do so together. SNN route not the most lucrative in the world, but nor is Knock, however expect Ryanair to make a go of it by year end

[EI-BUD]

Despite me having stated on PPRuNe at keast twice before, I'll say it again.

With Stobart air, you could not get to Manchester for cheaper than €80 return with 7kg hand luggage only.

You can say it 100 times. You don't know much revenue EIR were collecting on this route. Taxes and charges play a part and these combined with fuel and staff and other costs are substantial. Unless you work in the airline you do not know how marginal or otherwise this route for EIR was. Irrespective of what fare EIR was collecting.

[Runway_approach]

4 times cheaper - moral of the story is doesent make money which means better opportunities elsewhere in Europe - UK routes from regionals outside of core London stuff is very very marginal and in most cases loss making

[Runway_approach]

It's gone awful quiet on this thread guys no post in over 2 months - any news or developments in knock ? Looking at caa stats very strong numbers and growth in first few months of 2015

[AerRyan]

Bristol up alot due to the loss of the SNN-BRS service.

I doubt that we will see a BHX route anytime soon either, SNN will have one from next month and it's a small market with very few competing airlines.

[Runway_approach]

Originally Posted by AerRyan

Bristol up alot due to the loss of the SNN-BRS service.

I doubt that we will see a BHX route anytime soon either, SNN will have one from next month and it's a small market with very few competing airlines.

Bristol has an extra frequency added for months of April and May hence the extra numbers even when Shannon had Bristol the knock Bristol performed decently good market west of Galway

Disagree on Birmingham been a proven service from the airport and would expect they will have a carrier back on it from next summer although I
Notice their EMA service has picked up dramatically good to see they haven't gone elsewhere !!!

[AerRyan]

I'd say the EMA pax will drop once the SNN-BHX service comes into play.

Of course there's a market in NOC for a BHX service, it'll just be a while until one arises due to a lack of aircraft now.

[iwak]

I would say bhx will be back before too long I was thinking norweigen might have taken it up as they seem to be expanding at bhx. It's not a base but I thought a w leg might be an option. It needs a low cost 4 times a week to get volume !

I also thought fr would introduce brs for winter considering snn has no service either .

Joe Gilmore did say he was very hopeful of transatlantic flights in 2016 .

A lot of people on social media looking for a Scottish service also.

There's defo demand but it's the lack of carriers these days that's the problem.

[Kinocker]

There is room for one Scottish service to the western seaboard you would think. Nothing between Derry and Cork at the moment. EDI-NOC and EDI-SNN seemed to be the two most successful pairings when they existed, but then again if either was that successful it'd be operating today. The M6 and M7 are taking a lot of traffic away from SNN these days so previously sustainable routes from the mid 00's may no longer work from that airport, even with the apparently outlandish route subsidies they are now in a position to offer. Neither EIR or Flybe look too interested anyway so it would probably need to be Ryanair if it was to happen. Most likely nothing will happen before April 2016 at the earliest.

[Runway_approach]

Originally Posted by AerRyan

I'd say the EMA pax will drop once the SNN-BHX service comes into play.

Of course there's a market in NOC for a BHX service, it'll just be a while until one arises due to a lack of aircraft now.

I don't see the BHX having any impact whatsoever on the EMA if anything the opposite why would someone in the likes of Galway as an example fly to BHX on a turboprop at an average fare of between €100 to €150 return when you can fly on a jet to EMA for €9.99 one way? Unless you want to go direct to the city of Birmingham whic naturally there will be a certain element - agree though challenge at minute is lack of carriers and capacity but these things can change quickly and when they do expect NOC to get their BHX back

[AerRyan]

Originally Posted by Runway_approach

I don't see the BHX having any impact whatsoever on the EMA if anything the opposite why would someone in the likes of Galway as an example fly to BHX on a turboprop at an average fare of between €100 to €150 return when you can fly on a jet to EMA for €9.99 one way? Unless you want to go direct to the city of Birmingham whic naturally there will be a certain element - agree though challenge at minute is lack of carriers and capacity but these things can change quickly and when they do expect NOC to get their BHX back

Notice their EMA service has picked up dramatically good to see they haven't gone elsewhere !!!

Fairly hypocritical. You said its good to see the BHX pax have not gone elsewhere and are using EMA, yet your saying that they won't fly to BHX on a turboprob for €100-150 return.(Incorrect fares from €80 return are available compared to fares from €20 to EMA.)

I can see a lot of the old NOC BHX pax going to Shannon, and I also suspect Knock won't have a BHX service for the coming years. EI regional have no interest and Flybe don't have any extra capacity until late 2016!

[Runway_approach]

Originally Posted by AerRyan

Fairly hypocritical. You said its good to see the BHX pax have not gone elsewhere and are using EMA, yet your saying that they won't fly to BHX on a turboprob for €100-150 return.(Incorrect fares from €80 return are available compared to fares from €20 to EMA.)

I can see a lot of the old NOC BHX pax going to Shannon, and I also suspect Knock won't have a BHX service for the coming years. EI regional have no interest and Flybe don't have any extra capacity until late 2016!

Let's see how long the €80 fares last with EI Regional - not long is my guess - by elsewhere I mean other airports ie Dublin which can easily happen when you have gap in service - can you genuinely see people West of Galway going to Shannon when knock has a 5/6 week service to EMA?? you may eat those words saying knock won't get a BHX service in coming years - you should know things can change very quickly in the aviation world but then again opinions are opinions I for one think they will hopefully have it back next year - for the record Flybe have available capacity out of BHX and can see their current route strategy changing in coming year to 18 months and who knows what an AIG takeover could do for EI Regionsl ie fleet expansion - interesting times ahead !!!

[TRY2FLY]

I'm sure Loganair or Eastern has the spare capacity to do a Scottish route, the question is have they been approached. I doubt it.

[EI-BUD]

Knock Airport has been consistently resilient. Growing in the toughest of times. Ryanair has been an ardent supporter and stuck with the airport through the hardest and best of time, they have tried margin routes, some worked some did not.

BHX has a long history ex Knock Airport, I'd suggest that as long as EMA NOC is in place few will look at BHX again. If it does not work for BE, few others wilL look at it.
And FR unlikely to duplicate abother Midlands route unless they have to.

Perhaps if VLM can make a go of WAT BHX they may look at increased presence at BHX... But unlikely...

The logical next steps for growth at NOC is a US route, and continued growth in traffic on UK routes and focus on driving holiday flights for locals...

[virginblue]

an US route operated by whom exactly? i can think of a few other places a US carrier would operate to before serving NOC, given the existing services to BFS, DUB and SNN.

[EI-BUD]

Thank you Virgin Blue. My point is in terms of priorities, I think a US route should be a priority for Knock Airport. I realise not a big pool of airlines that would be most suited to this but it is the logical aspiration for the airport..

[AerRyan]

Originally Posted by EI-BUD

Thank you Virgin Blue. My point is in terms of priorities, I think a US route should be a priority for Knock Airport. I realise not a big pool of airlines that would be most suited to this but it is the logical aspiration for the airport..

So why exactly should an airport focus on the unachievable?