In 2006 Monarch did a runner when pax was over 70%.
Blackpool got over that, and they will get over Ryanair's tantrums.
The head of Ryanair is an eccentric idiot IMO who picks arguments Europe wide. Like you say "good riddance" - If Girona is profitable, then it will be taken by some airline.
The Blackpool market is very weak, therefore fares are low to attract demand, therefore £10 additional charge can put off a lot of traffic. RYR therefore could discount further to keep demand up to meet their load factor needs, but they don't make enough money per seat anyway from Blackpool to offset the £10 charge. So they've quite rightly pulled out.
The Blackpool market is very weak, therefore fares are low to attract demand,[...] therefore £10 additional charge can put off a lot of traffic.[...] RYR therefore could discount further to keep demand up to meet their load factor needs, but they don't make enough money per seat anyway from Blackpool to offset the £10 charge. So they've quite rightly pulled out.
First the fares at Blackpool are no lower than Manchester,
I have tried to book in July to Alicante return 4th August. The price from Blackpool was no loer than with Easyjet and others.
In fact the prices are rising - showing bookings must be up.
Ryanair don't own Blackpool Airport - They have stated they had no intention of leaving Blackpool, so the Dublin and Girona routes must have been profitable.
They have also said they will return if the airport drops the £10 charge, and may even expand there service. Blackpool are going to look very weak this winter with Ryanair going, but if Blackpool bosses back down - what will pay for the upgrades that are needed, It on;y needs another carrier to take over the Girona route - and it's business as usual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickyman
Ernest Lancs
How long can you keep your head buried in the sand...
Hey MM I have no vested interest in Blackpool airport, in fact I live nearer to Manchester than Blackpool.
I doubt anyone could argue that Blackpool is far more convenient than Manchester - or that it's easier to get to than Liverpool.
That's why Jet2 are committed to Blackpool.
In the short term things look bleak, just needs one more carrier the likes of Easyjet and again thing will be back to normal - and that is not a full winter programme and never has been. I use Blackpool airport because it is convenient, and I doubt £10 on the over 16s is going to make a great deal of difference - also the cost of parking to Zero for 2 weeks - will be attractive to families. Is my head in the sand? - well maybe I don't know what the future holds for Blackpool - and I guess no many on this thread do either.
Actually, it depends how many seats they sell at BLK at each fare level though, that's the point, it's AVERAGE income per AVAILABLE seat, and I know for a fact they make a lot less per seat at BLK than they do MAN. If you look at fares tomorrow to DUB the fare at BLK is 49.99, compared to between 49.99 and 129.99 from MAN, illustrating a greater demand for services from MAN and therefore the ability to make more per seat.
The reason your flights next year are the same price is because that is the typical Ryanair model, to set a charge for 6 months ahead by sector type/length/period of year etc. It is when the dicosunts are applied that you will notice the variance (typically 3 months in advance) and also at the last minute. This is the effect of discrimatory pricing.
I should also point out, there isn't a hope of EZY going there, it's the wrong type of airport for them, doesn't fit there model and likely never will.
Last edited by ..airman : 27th November 2008 at 13:39.
Seems to me there are alot of people with alot to say about Blackpool since the charge was announced. Balfour Beattie are no fly by night organisation they have alot of people who know what they are doing and must have thort long and hard before going ahead with this charge. I`ve said before on these pages i`ll still use Blackpool it is less hastle and money for me to go there even if i do walk there. Some people will go to Manchester and some will go to Liverpool, but in ten years time there will still be an airport, and hopefully Jet 2 (keep up the good work PM). Blackpool can never compete with its two bigger brothers down the road, but as somebody who has been stuck on the Barton Bridge/Manchester ship canal bridge, trying to get to one of the bigger cousins, its nice to have a choice. So will the MM`s of this world (Blackpool dont stink mate that`s Fleetwood down the road)take there doom mongering and go back to the Manchester thread
Actually MM, we have seen some very experienced airport operators introduce these sorts of charges, and pay for them by loosing traffic. If you look at Norwich, FlyBe were very clear that their business was hurt by it, and the Airport paid the price by loosing traffic. At Newquay the same is true, and one of those charged with helping develop this airport is a VERY experienced aviation expert, but they lost traffic because it hurt the airlines' business.
I have spent a lot of time looking at the effects of charges and additional costs on passenger demand for my job, and I can guarantee, these charges will be hurting, and as we know Jet2 are not happy about it, so they know themselves it will hurt their business, even if they've chosen to recommit to BLK. Of course the strength of Jet2's business is a matter for another thread
... airman, traffic at NQY is substantially UP so i am not sure how they have lost passengers. The initial RYR reaction to the ADF was reversed in 2008 when the recommitted to the airport by returning the flight they had pulled and adding several more.
Also added in 2008 - Flybe, Lufthansa, BA (though that was just about a slot at LGW), and much more from Air Southwest.
Hi,
I think this is a very interesting thread to read, with some very valid points made by all parties.
I have to be honest, I have not been on these forums for some time, and was intrigued by the debate going on.
I don't see much point in arguing with peoples points or opinions, we all have our own and are entitled to them. However, I do think I can say a few things about this which I hope will give a different dimension to the discussion.
Firstly, it is a brave move Blackpool have made, time will tell if it is the right one, but - I do think that for small airports to survive they have to think differently. MOL at Ryanair has a very idealistic view of airports. Of course, everyone wants to drive the cost down. I very much doubt the owners of BLK have not looked at every line of cost in minute detail and the costs as low as possible yet they can not make ends meet, and there is only so much so you can ask the shareholders to do.
Here is the problem for airports:
They are essentially a fixed cost business. Whether you have 1 passenger or 1,000,000 passengers you still need ATC, Fire, Security etc. Of course there is an element of variability within this, but essentially it is almost impossible to get costs below a fixed point - which is a significant number!
This is the problem, and massive conflict for a regional airport with Ryanair - Ryanair WILL NOT pay for these services. Or at least, they will not pay very much. So the airport has to find alternative ways to make money to cover these fixed costs. MOL says - "make money out of the passengers" but let me ask a question. I would guess typical costs for everything at an airport like Blackpool are between £15 and £20 per departing passenger. Now, if the airport (whether it be Blackpool or any other) wants to recover these costs from the passenger - how are the going to do that?
MOL says - retail etc. BUT - Let's say, on average the airport finally receives 20% of what the passenger pays (the retained profit by the airport from the sale of a bottle of perfume or a full english etc) This 20% is the airports share of the profit (after the staff have been paid, the goods bought etc)
This means that EVERY SINGLE PASSENGER who walks through the door would have to spend around £100 in the airport. Now ask yourself, did you spend that much (and everyone else who was travelling with you) when you last flew? And this does not include the flight or anything you pay the airline (like extra leg room etc) - this is £100 in the shops - and remeber this is EVERY SINGLE PERSON including the kids!
If you think I am being dumb - then you are entitled to and I don't care much, but think about this, Frankfurt Hahn, one of Ryanairs biggest hubs - looses EUR'000,000s every year - and they have a lot of passengers to try to get to spend money ...
OK, so the point of this ramble? Well, Ryanair continue to report profits, but the airports they serve do not. Ryanairs view of airports making money is not totally rooted in reality. There is a huge conflict and inbalance between the business model of Ryanair and the airport. (and in case anyone is wondering, Ryanair do NEED airports!)
Now, in the case of Blackpool, as I said, I am not sure the £10 tax is the best thing to do, however I would bet money they did not make a single penny of profit out of Ryanair - by the time you looked at the costs vs the revenues - in fact they may even make a loss on Ryanair. so maybe it is not such a bad thing that they are going. Remember this isn't about dots on a map or logos over the check in desk, it is about a sustainable business.
I think BLK on the one hand should be given some credit for finally standing up for themselves - as I say, personally I am not convinced by the £10 charge, but at least they are taking action ...
I left the air travel business some time ago but just felt compelled to comment!
Last edited by garethjk22 : 27th November 2008 at 23:54.
Blackpool Airport bosses where backed into a corner by Ryanair.
No matter what Ryanair thinks of the new tax, Blackpool needed more revenue just to survive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Kershaw
Recent new financial requests made by Ryanair would have further accelerated the unsustainable financial position of the airport.[...]Unfortunately the airport's management team has been forced to conclude these cannot be accommodated and that the airport should engage with other operators who recognise the requirement for airports to be viable businesses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by garthethjk22
I think BLK on the one hand should be given some credit for finally standing up for themselves[ - ]as I say, personally I am not convinced by the £10 charge, but at least they are taking action and looking holistically at the business and trying to work out what to do.
All those who support the survival of Blackpool airport will have wished that they had not imposed that £10 surcharge. But when one thinks about it now the dust has settled - IMO the airport had little choice but to bring in more revenue - or die.
Those who oppose the £10 charge - I would be interested as I think we all would: Where was the income needed for the upkeep of the airport other than that have come from?. I wonder how many people would have objected to the £10 surcharge, had Ryanair not gone off in a paddy, and if the Blackpool bosses are to be believed - Ryanair was a liability to the airport - not an asset.
Ryanair are obsessed with keeping air prices low, but they should realise that smaller businesses like Blackpool don't have the assets that they do - NOR can Blackpool charge extortionate baggage charges while boasting they are not passing on fuel charges to passengers.
I wonder if Blackpool have not made matters worse - by allowing free parking at the airport, that makes no sense at all.
A Gareth K commenting in the BLK thread.....I wonder
Same GK who gave it up to become an actooor, surely not.
Makes some valid points though. FR do NEED airports. Question is, do airports NEED Ryanair? Once they've squeezed the last drop of life out of the place the answer's probably no but, who has the brass balls to show FR the door. If only it had progressed no further than the EMB110 perhaps this industry would still be a pleasure.
As for 'looking holistically at the business', mumbojumbo claptrap speak. 'The whole is greater than the sum of the parts' What's that all about then? I'll have to stop my blood temp rises at time like this.
Rgds
The Moss
Last edited by Ballymoss : 27th November 2008 at 23:54.
Reason: I karnt spell proply
I can report that all the investment is worth it. Came through the baggage hall tonight and it was sporting a lovely new carpet. So much better than the old concrete floor, which made the place look like a warehouse. Wonder if carpet tiles would work on the end of R28 too...
The 1140 Manx-104 service suffered a starboard MLG blow-out upon landing today which resulted in a blocked runway 10/28 for a while. It was operated by OK-UBA (Let 410). Photo here.
I hear everyone as BLK was not too upset about Ryanair disappearing as a new STN service will start March and high hopes of J2 picking up another Spanish route Goodby and good riddence MOL , bet you paid the airport all anyway.
and high hopes of J2 picking up another Spanish route
all anyway.
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