GATWICK

[True Blue]

Norwegian now showing 5 x to Stockholm ex Lgw from April.

TB

[davidjohnson6]

Is Norwegian trying to kick a weakened SAS off the Heathrow-Arlanda route similiar to CSA's closing the Heathrow-Prague route, or is there genuine latent demand for more seats between London and Stockholm ?

[sxflyer]

Probably a bit of both dj6, flights to London from Scandinavia are always busy but this will put pressure on SAS.

[LN-KGL]

You also need to take in to account what will happen in June next year. There are now clear indications that ARN will be the main European airport for Norwegian Intercontinental's flights to BKK with B788, and they want to secure feed even from LGW

[adfly]

BA dropping MAN from March, not too surprising as the timings have been pretty poor ever since the 4th daily overnighting flight was dropped. I would say that leaves a nice wide door open for EZY! (Or Flybe as a longshot).

Article: British Airways ditches Manchester-Gatwick route | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk

Also an interesting article concerning operating cost reductions and fleet for BA @ LGW, commitment to keeping short haul and also talk of adding more long haul aircraft.

British Airways Reviews London Gatwick Fleet - Businessweek

Finally it looks like the bearded one is the first major player to support a second runway, along with 2 more at Heathrow!

Branson: "Build new Gatwick runway now" | Meridian - ITV News

[BAladdy]

Does anyone have any idea about when DY are planning to release for sale there new routes from LGW to Croatia and Spain??.

BA dropping MAN from March, not too surprising as the timings have been pretty poor ever since the 4th daily overnighting flight was dropped. I would say that leaves a nice wide door open for EZY! (Or Flybe as a longshot).

Article: British Airways ditches Manchester-Gatwick route | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk

Also an interesting article concerning operating cost reductions and fleet for BA @ LGW, commitment to keeping short haul and also talk of adding more long haul aircraft.

British Airways Reviews London Gatwick Fleet - Businessweek

The route to MAN was struggling well before the reduction in frequency. I suprised when that they didn't drop the route for the Winter schedule.

BA are so far planning to make the following changes to there schedule for next summer. The changes are based on there operation during S12. Below is a list of all the changes. All flights currently showing as being operated by a 737.

Further changes to the schedule including the planned deployment of A319 aircraft are expected in the coming weeks.

New Routes

Alicante - Flights will resume after being dropped a few years back. Flights will operate 17 x Weekly until 1st July 2013 when flights will increase to 3 x Daily

Barcelona - Flights return after being dropped a few years ago in February 2013. During the S13 schedule flights will operate 3 x Daily. Flights will depart LGW at 09:50, 15:40 & 21:20 arriving in BCN at 13:00, 18:50 & 00:30. Return flights will depart BCN at 08:10, 13:55 & 19:40 arriving LGW 09:15, 15:00 & 20:45

Routes Dropped

Manchester - As reported above flights will not operate S13. Flights operated up to 3 x Daily S12

Pristina - No flights available for sale W12/13 or S13. Flights operated 2 x Weekly S12

Frequency Decreases

Amsterdam - Flights will drop from 26 to 22 x Weekly in S13. BA2764/BA2765 will not operate days Monday to Thursday

Edinburgh - Flights drop from 28 to 26 x Weekly with 3 rotations instead if four operating on Saturday & Sunday. BA2940/BA2941 rotation non op on those days.

Jersey - Flights will drop from 35 to 34 x Weekly. BA2776/77 rotation will not operate on a Saturday.

Naples - Flights will drop from 3 to 2 x Daily in S13.

Tirana - Flights will drop from 5 to 4 x Weekly.

Frequency Increases

Faro - Flights will operate 8 x Weekly.

Rome FCO - Flights will increase from 10 flights a week in S12 to 2 x Daily S13.

Days of Operation Changes

Salzburg - Flights will operate on Monday, Wednesday, Saturday & Sunday S13. Flight operated Tuesday, Friday, Saturday & Sunday S12

Thessaloniki

- S13 flights will operate Monday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Flights operated Monday, Wednesday, Friday & Saturday.

Tunis - S13 flights will operate 5 x weekly with no flights on a Wednesday & Saturday. S12 flight didn't operate on a Tuesday or Thursday

[adfly]

EZY New Routes

Its route 100 time for the Big Orange! New routes for next summer (including ones continued from the winter) are as follows:

Moscow Domodedovo - 14 weekly
Kalamata - 2 weekly
Santiago - 3 weekly
Isle of Man - 6 weekly
Luxembourg - 4 weekly
Tallinn - 4 weekly

Article: easyJet plc : easyJet marks major milestone - the airline’s 100th route launches at London Gatwick | 4-Traders

[BAladdy]

Norwegian have today released for sale all there recently announced LGW routes. Flights are available for sale until 30SEP13.

Here is a list of DY's new routes from LGW along with there planned schedule and operational frequency. Further changes are likely to take place before the start of the S13 operation

Arrecife - 2 x weekly starts 02SEP13

DY2438 LGW 07:00 ACE 11:10 738 15

DY2439 ACE 12:05 LGW 16:15 738 15

Alicante - Operates 1 x weekly 06APR13 to 31AUG13

DY2410 LGW 09:35 ALC 12:55 738 6

DY2411 ALC 13:40 LGW 15:10 738 6

Flights will increase to 3 x weekly commencing 03SEP13

DY2410 LGW 09:35 ALC 12:55 738 6
DY2410 LGW 17:15 ALC 20:35 738 24

DY2411 ALC 13:40 LGW 15:10 738 6
DY2411 ALC 21:20 LGW 22:50 738 24

Barcelona - 3 x weekly starting 04APR13

DY2504 LGW 12:15 BCN 15:25 738 24
DY2504 LGW 12:40 BCN 15:50 738 7

DY2505 BCN 16:05 LGW 17:15 738 24
DY2505 BCN 16:30 LGW 17:40 738 7

Dubrovnik - Weekly flights start 06APR13

DY2454 LGW 06:25 DBV 10:05 738 6

DY2455 DBV 10:45 LGW 12:20 738 6

Faro - Weekly flights start 06APR13

DY2450 LGW 17:05 FAO 19:55 738 6

DY2451 FAO 20:40 LGW 23:30 738 6

Rome - 4 x weekly service starts 06SEP13

DY2500 LGW 17:15 FCO 20:45 738 x246

DY2501 FCO 21:25 LGW 23:05 738 x246

Marseille - Weekly flights start 06APR13

DY2444 LGW 19:20 MRS 22:10 738 6

DY2445 MRS 22:40 LGW 23:30 738 6

Nice - 4 x weekly service starts 05APR13

DY2440 LGW 11:35 NCE 14:35 738 135
DY2440 LGW 12:15 NCE 15:15 738 7

DY2441 NCE 15:15 LGW 16:15 738 135
DY2441 NCE 15:55 LGW 16:55 738 7

Palma - Weekly flights start 07APR13

DY2428 LGW 06:00 PMI 09:25 738 7

DY2429 PMI 10:05 LGW 11:30 738 7

Split - Weekly service starts 06APR13

DY2452 LGW 13:20 SPU 16:45 738 6

DY2453 SPU 17:25 LGW 18:50 738 6

Tenerife - 4 x weekly service starts 05SEP13

DY2434 LGW 06:00 TFS 10:15 738 247
DY2434 LGW 07:00 TFS 11:15 738 247

DY2435 TFS 11:05 LGW 15:20 738 247
DY2435 TFS 12:05 LGW 16:20 738 247

[pamann]

DY

DY don't really have the frequency to compete with the big boys at LGW. IMO they'd be better to re-trench their footsteps back to STN and try it from there. I don't really see it lasting.

[Airlift21]

pamann

DY don't really have the frequency to compete with the big boys at LGW. IMO they'd be better to re-trench their footsteps back to STN and try it from there. I don't really see it lasting.

Er, why?

They have to start from somewhere and there's absolutely no reason why it can't work for them. We'll just have to wait and see.

Also, I can't think of a single reason why they would want to "re-trench" their footsteps back to STN. The passenger numbers are still falling off there.

There are some very good reasons to start a base at Gatwick, one of them being the pretty damn good rail connections to London and the rest of the southeast. The catchment area is larger as well. It's not a decision Norwegian would have taken if they didn't think there was something in it for them.

[pamann]

Hmmm... Airlift21 I do wish them all the luck. Having flown with them they are a great product. However I'm thinking Aer Lingus part 2. Aer Lingus couldn't make some of those routes work with higher frequency and brand awareness (might be worth you doing some home work and take a look back at what has already been done).

As for Stansted, yes passenger numbers are falling, no need to bang your head against the wall. However once again only time will tell. fingers crossed to all involved.

[easyflyer83]

I must admit, those frequencies aren't exactly a match for EZY/BA. No doubt about it DY have been pretty successful but they have been so largely away from the dominance of Easyjet. I.e Scandinavia. Low frequency, a brand that is very geographical and not associated with the UK to anywhere but Scandinavia and I think there is every reason to foresee a possible failure for them at LGW.

[Airlift21]

pamann,

However I'm thinking Aer Lingus part 2. Aer Lingus couldn't make some of those routes work with higher frequency and brand awareness (might be worth you doing some home work and take a look back at what has already been done).

I do see your point with regards to Aer Lingus and that was pretty recent so it may well be a risky move, but their customer base is a little different to that of the Irish carrier. I was only banging my head against the wall with reference to a move back to Stansted.

As we both said though, only time will tell.

Airlift

[easyflyer83]

Aer Lingus or Norwegian the customer base is pretty much the same.

[pamann]

Completely agree with easyflyer83...

Think Aer lingus - think Ireland
Think Norwegian - think Scandinavia

It will take some HEAVY marketing to get the UK general public to think Norwegian = Arrecife or Pula once or twice a week.

Gatwick is saturated with a lot of the routes chosen. Just look at Barcelona for instance.

I still think Stansted or even Luton would have been a better option, but even still some major marketing and brand awareness in these areas would be needed.

[LN-KGL]

easyflyer and pamann, you also have to consider the feed from Scandinavia and Finland. I see a DY hub at LGW and the main part of the passengers will be from the Nordic countries. It will only be a few British passengers (the last seats).

[pamann]

But is that Norwegian's intention? Aren't most if not all these routes already served from their home bases? I'm not sure that it's being done to interline.

[LN-KGL]

The LGW based aircraft will fly to Scandinavian destinations too - here is the morning duty for two of them Mon-Fri:

LGW-OSL 06:10-09:15
OSL-LGW 09:45-11:05

LGW-ARN 06:30-09:50
ARN-LGW 10:20-11:55

I haven't had time to analyse it all, but with the return times to LGW I suspect a number of Norwegian flights have flown just before LGW based aircraft arrive and are ready to do their flights to the south. To me this says transfer. Many of the don't have direct flight during the week - only during the weekends. In other words more capacity without dedicating a single aircraft to each destination.

Edit:
I see only two DY 738 at LGW from the start in April to early September. Here is how the Saturdays for one of them looks like

LGW-DBV 06:25-10:05
DBV-LGW 10:45-12:20
LGW-SPU 13:20-16:45
SPU-LGW 17:25-18:50
LGW-MRS 19:20-22:10
MRS-LGW 22:40-23:30

[Airlift21]

Aer Lingus or Norwegian the customer base is pretty much the same.

Except Aer Lingus passengers weren't originating from Scandinavia, so it's slightly different and also it looks as though they'll be feeding from those Nordic destinations.

It will take some HEAVY marketing to get the UK general public to think Norwegian = Arrecife or Pula once or twice a week.

That's if you're looking to attract just UK customers. As you said, those routes are heavily served from LGW, but the load factors are pretty high. IF Norwegian are looking to feed from Scandinavia, then any remaining seats could be mopped up with UK passengers, without HEAVY marketing.

[LGW_08R]

After trawling through the current schedules this evening. (Nothing better to do!) I have compiled, what I believe will be the schedules for the Gatwick based aircraft. These are shown in the table above.

If this is correct, then this shows that (initially at least) there will only be 2 aircraft that night-stop Monday thru Friday. With a third on Saturday and again 2 on Sunday.

AC1 seems fairly standard. The schedule shows that Gatwick based unit now operate the flights to Aalborg and Alesund, and these fit nicely into this unit. The AM Oslo service also fits nicely in this AC. M-F between the two Scandic routes, there is space for a new external route, and my belief shows the above. Rotating between Nice and Barcelona throughout the weekdays. Come the weekend, the unit flies a host of new routes, Dubrovnik, Split and Marseille on Saturday. With Palma, Nice and an extra Weekly frequency to Helsinki on Sunday.

AC2 is the second night stopping unit. M-F it flies an early morning Stockholm rotation. Once back, just after lunch, the unit flies to ARN once more where it looks like an aircraft change takes place. A different aircraft then returns from Stockholm in late afternoon, and this unit (AC3) goes on to operate a further ARN rotation on 12_45__. On the Wednesday, AC3 would then operate one of the new Tromso frequencies. Back to AC2, on the weekend, it would operate a Tromso and Faro rotation on the Saturday, with Aalborg, Barcelona and Stockholm on the Sunday.

As mentioned above, the schedules suggest only 2 night stopping aircraft, but also that three aircraft are required for most of the weekend. The schedules suggest that the third unit (AC3 once again) will arrive from Stockholm on the Saturday morning, and will operate to both Alicante and Stockholm that day. On the Sunday, the third unit will operate two return rotations to Stockholm after which, in the evening, it operates a third late evening flight to Stockholm where it remains for the night.

If that makes sense to you, well done! I think I lost myself in explanation. However. Regardless, in my opinion the new Gatwick base has been set up simply to serve Scandinavia. The Stockholm route is practically now operated by one of the Gatwick based units and if you factor in the other changes, ie frequency increases on Helsinki and Oslo, plus a new route to Tromso, then the schedule is left with a couple of holes. Like I said, in my opinion, rather than the aircraft sitting around idle at Gatwick why not make use of them on some bucket and spade routes. In the bigger picture, the base will make money as a whole thanks to the Scandic routes alone I believe. As mentioned also, there is the potential to "hub" passengers through Gatwick. In time, I suspect new routes to Scandic airports that cannot support a base to open, for example, Kristiansand. By having a base at Gatwick, the airline would be able to operate a weekly/twice weekly route to the airport in the future, which would be a great more deal sustainable than basing an aircraft at Kristiansand and trying to fill it daily to various other destinations.

Strayed slightly from the hubbing point however. It simply is not possible for NAX to operate Tromso to Tenerife for example. However, passengers now have the opportunity to fly that routing via Gatwick. Yes, they could choose to go via OSL or such, but LGW is a more direct route and would be quicker for the passengers.

Anyway, certainly is interesting news. Wish NAX every success. Believe they can do well.

8R