Emirates
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: UK
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Who in there right mind would go via MXP if they can go direct when the prices are broadly similar ? For that reason can't see MXP having a significant reduction in seats actually being available.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Germany
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Current fleet
Just a quick update regarding the current EK fleet
31 x A380-800 (59 on order)
87 x B777-300ER (64 on order)
12 x B777-300
6 x B777-200ER
3 x B777-200
10 x B777-200LR
10 x A340-500
6 x A340-300
23 x A330-200
EK SkyCargo
4 x B747-400F
8 x B777-200F
200 aircrafts in total.
31 x A380-800 (59 on order)
87 x B777-300ER (64 on order)
12 x B777-300
6 x B777-200ER
3 x B777-200
10 x B777-200LR
10 x A340-500
6 x A340-300
23 x A330-200
EK SkyCargo
4 x B747-400F
8 x B777-200F
200 aircrafts in total.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: uk
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Dubai - Manchester - USA would work !
...those who use EK Eastbound especially First/Business would jump at the chance to use a westbound service with same levels of service.
...those who use EK Eastbound especially First/Business would jump at the chance to use a westbound service with same levels of service.
Last edited by Bagso; 21st Apr 2013 at 19:27.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Bagso - Maybe APD hurts the sums too much for it to look a profit priority for EK.
My understanding is that passengers flying THROUGH any potential stop in the UK don't attract APD. However, any passenger flying just MAN to USA or vice-versa would of course attract APD just as they would on any existing carrier.
I tend to agree that the EK brand would work wonderfully MAN to USA point to point.
Not so sure it would work very well the other way round. EK really is not a massive brand in much of the US.
Interesting theoretical question is without the burden of APD putting many carriers off launching new routes in and out of the UK, would EK or QR already have launched a flight like this instead of from other non APD burdened countries??
My understanding is that passengers flying THROUGH any potential stop in the UK don't attract APD. However, any passenger flying just MAN to USA or vice-versa would of course attract APD just as they would on any existing carrier.
I tend to agree that the EK brand would work wonderfully MAN to USA point to point.
Not so sure it would work very well the other way round. EK really is not a massive brand in much of the US.
Interesting theoretical question is without the burden of APD putting many carriers off launching new routes in and out of the UK, would EK or QR already have launched a flight like this instead of from other non APD burdened countries??
I must have missed something. Why should a non european carrier get additional traffic rights from europe to north america? They can tech stop where they like of course. But picking up pax in Man or Cdg that did not originate in Dubai, how likely is it that they have all these agreements?
Last edited by lederhosen; 29th Apr 2013 at 06:24.
I know what fifth freedom rights are. I am just surprised by some (actually most) of the suggested routes. Cdg to Lax for example? I am not doubting that in a free market passengers would book in droves. But France and the USA allowing Emirates to compete on this route would be news.
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Quote: "Dubai - Manchester - USA would work !
...those who use EK Eastbound especially First/Business would jump at the chance to use a westbound service with same levels of service."
You make the assumption that EK would have rights to carry pax between MAN and points in the USA.
Can't see the UK and USA govts agreeing to this!
...those who use EK Eastbound especially First/Business would jump at the chance to use a westbound service with same levels of service."
You make the assumption that EK would have rights to carry pax between MAN and points in the USA.
Can't see the UK and USA govts agreeing to this!
You have got to be joking pwalhx. If you think that Emirates is going to be able to negotiate these rights because PIA have them you are misinformed. PIA would probably be the first to object followed by BA, Virgin and just about every US airline.
Join Date: Dec 2003
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The Davies Commission is currently looking at this whole area as well as bilateral agreements !
Airline A, a Foreign airline applies for Shanghai - Manchester
Airlines B and C based in UK want reciprocal rights BUT want them from London as they have no interest in Manchester.
Airline A has a rethink they don't want to end up with a "regional flight" whilst Airlines B + C end up operating from the UK Capital.
Result ; Airline A backtracks !
Manchester which can support the service loses out ....and so it goes on and on and on................due domination of UK airlines at Heathrow !
Airline A, a Foreign airline applies for Shanghai - Manchester
Airlines B and C based in UK want reciprocal rights BUT want them from London as they have no interest in Manchester.
Airline A has a rethink they don't want to end up with a "regional flight" whilst Airlines B + C end up operating from the UK Capital.
Result ; Airline A backtracks !
Manchester which can support the service loses out ....and so it goes on and on and on................due domination of UK airlines at Heathrow !
Last edited by Bagso; 28th Apr 2013 at 19:00.
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Airline A has a rethink they don't want to end up with a "regional flight" whilst Airlines B + C end up operating from the UK Capital.
BA and Virgin would object, for sure.
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 28th Apr 2013 at 20:02.
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Skipness I don`t think that quite was what Bagso had said, from what I read he was saying airline A wanted Manchester whilst airline B the British airline wanted reciprocal rights but from London as they are not interested in Manchester but airline A says it is not fair that they cannot have London as they want a level playing field.
Hope that makes sense
Chaps
Hope that makes sense
Chaps
Having dusted off the old memory cells I do remember reading an article about Peter Hill and the early days of Emirates. The airline took advantage of the fact that Dubai had an enormous number of reciprocal traffic rights granted at a time when Alitalia, BOAC and many others stopped off there on the way to the far east. Obviously nobody expected Emirates to develop the way it did. But if they really have these traffic rights then things are going to get very interesting.
And good luck to them. Emirates have proved they are a reliable carrier who has built up loyality in the UK where BA have failed in the regions. I'm sure BA would have not pulled out of the regions had they known the growth was as positive as it has been. Emirates are catering for a Country not a capital. They offer an excellent range of services from within Australia and the UK along with expansion in South Africa. The home grown carriers don't.
I would love to see Emirates offer 5th freedom rights from UK airports, but the problem is people like Branson would cry foul as they always do when threatened with competition. Interesting times for EY & QR as well. They are following in EK's footsteps as well eyeing up various UK options. Lets hope they commit themselves to more UK expansion.
I would love to see Emirates offer 5th freedom rights from UK airports, but the problem is people like Branson would cry foul as they always do when threatened with competition. Interesting times for EY & QR as well. They are following in EK's footsteps as well eyeing up various UK options. Lets hope they commit themselves to more UK expansion.
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What's your moan this time? Airline A applied for MAN not knowing it was regional? Why must some people always link MAN with London.
er hang on Skippy !
I think you have hit the nail on the head yourself, why indeed is there this linkage between Manchester with London.
Why is not an open and free market, because BA and to a certain extent VS want to operate from their principal base , I totally get that but why does Manchester consistently have to be the the pawn in this !
Bilaterals s/b negotiated on a like for like basis should they not , if an airline wants a Manchester service it has diddly squat to do with London. Surely you cannot be advocating a level of protectionism for BA and more recently a VS shuttle service ?
Look at the down side, extra flights at LHR, more pollution.
You are right, why can we not have a situation where the foreign Airline A is given rights which are also "offered" to BA and VS FROM MANCHESTER on a like for like basis ?
IF they have no interest then as you point out yourself why on earth is this anything to do with some form of contra rights from the London market ?
If Airline A the foreign airline want to operate, it is a comercial investment for them to do so. BA and VS can be offered equal rights "From Manchester" OR of course, regional rights to a destination within the foreigns airlines country from LHR.
Just because they don't happen to have a base at Manchester OR do not want to compete is quite frankly there look out is it not ?
Last edited by Bagso; 29th Apr 2013 at 11:58.
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a level playing field
My feeling is that they EK or any other airline for that matter shouldn't be allowed to compete in the market without being subject to the same regulatory environment. Granting 5th freedom routes should come with conditions.
They could certainly do a good job in developing the US routes from the regions just as they have to/from Dubai and onwards.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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If Emirates are to get rights to fly UK to say the US, will they be subject to the same regulations toward passengers?
Join Date: Aug 2002
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It ought to be an open market IMHO. The old bilaterals are from the dark ages of regulation. Thing is, if EK put an A388 on DXB-MAN-USA, I suspect they'd do well. They'd take point to point traffic to such an extent it would likely endanger existing US connectivity. Nothing's free alas.
As to MAN elsewhere, it should have nothing to do with London.
As to MAN elsewhere, it should have nothing to do with London.