Aurigny Air Services

[quazz]

Boo hoo poor little flybe...oh wait aren't they europes largest regional airline?
Backed by an exceptionally wealthy family? Somehow I think the Walkers have more money to put into flybe than the states of guernsey have to put into aurigny!

[uncovered]

Sorry to spoil your fantasy

Flybe ceremoniously paid back the last Few million of what the trust had invested in May of this year. I saw a big staff newsletter on it from one of the flight crew. Wonder in which Millenium Aurigny will pay back the States.

[Feet on ground]

Pay back the States what?

What money has Aurigny received from the States?

[fredtheanorak]

The purchase of Aurigny was paid for with States taxpayers money.

[blueplume]

Plus all the rest. See other threads ad nauseam.....

[Feet on ground]

When you buy a business you do so for the value that that business can generate for you, that doesn't always mean hard cash. The States bought Aurigny for the four pairs of Gatwick slots, and to protect the life line routes into the Guernsey.

Can you imagine how much more would have been spent (by the people and businesses of Guernsey) on air travel to/from Guernsey over the last five years if Aurigny were not there providing competition to flybe and Blue islands?

A lot more than the States has invested in Aurigny.

[kuningan]

Aurigny lost £1million in the first 8 months of 2008 - fuel costs and maintaining the ageing ATRs are blamed. Flybe's response is highly predictable.....so why don't the Guernsey government just sell out to Flybe so they can have a monopoly and only run services to Manchester 6 months of the year....?....

[Cloud1]

Whilst this thread is about Aurigny, I must add that Flybe do not pick and choose which routes to cancel. They are a succesful company, something which few airlines can claim to be at the moment, and they make sensible business decisions. They will cancel a route if passengers do not use it enough - whats wrong with that? why should they waste money operating a service which people do not use. Chances are that those people who do not use the service are those that then slag them off on websites and media when they drop it

Aurigny are a bit of a joke as they have a small number of routes out of Guernsey and to the best of my knowledge have not introduced any new routes for a very very long time. They have bitched and moaned about Flybe and in particularly the GCI-MAN route which Flybe made clear from day one was only a summer route. What is clear is that passengers chose to travel with Flybe and as a result Aurigny's business slipped, hence why they groaned when Flybe stopped the route.

Guernsey is big enough for two operators although I do think that island residents and the GCI government need to wake up, open their eyes and realise that Flybe have carried a large number of passengers compared to Aurigny and I suspect generated a fair amount for GCI economy. Jet service or no jet service, they still carry more passengers on their services out of GCI compared to 'the national state owned airline'

Aurigny will not go anywhere because it has GCI government backing but it does not mean that people will choose Aurigny over any other carrier as a result. Their service levels are no better than Flybe's or any other airlines for that matter - the only carrier in the Channel Islands with a slight difference is Blue Islands.

[kuningan]

the GCI-MAN route which Flybe made clear from day one was only a summer route

If that was the case why did they cancel flights and refund fares?

[Cloud1]

Rather than extract lines FlyerGuy why not read the whole paragraph - it does actually make sense regardless of what you think.

The term pick and choose suggests that someone puts no thought into their actions. Flybe think about the route they cancel and therefore do not pick and choose which routes to cancel. I did not say they did not cancel at all now did I?

Flybe have carried more passengers than Aurigny. But if passengers do not use a particular service then it will not operate. If this is not logical why did Auriny cancel their services to Alderney from Jersey and to Dinard?

FlyerGuy - I would recommend that you read the entire post. I would also suggest that you do abit of investigating and a little bit of research before coming back to my post in such a way where actually, as far as I am now concerned, it makes you look as though you have no aviation or least of all business knowledge what so ever.

I would be delighted if Flybe pulled out of the Islands - watch the islanders try and get on with their lives and business. Sometimes people do not appreciate something until they do not have it anymore and it would seem to me that, that is exactly what is happening with Flybe and (some of) the island residents.

kuningan
The route was pulled earlier than anticipated. Sad but thats life....and it is these decisions that means that Flybe can operate profitably without the need of financial input from the GCI government to buy new aircraft, for example.

Lets compare facts, from GCI at least:

GR to MAN 2x daily
GR to LGW 4x weekday
GR to JER 13x daily in Trislander........ :-(
GR to ALD max 4x weekday except mon and fri
GR to STN varies from 1x weekday to every other day(??)
GR to BRS 1x weekday

BE to LGW 5x weekday
BE to BHX 2x weekday
BE to EXT 2x weekday
BE to MAN direct (summer only)
BE to DUB direct (summer only)
BE to CDG direct (summer only)
BE to JER 2x weekday
BE to SOU 4x weekday
BE to NWI (summer only)

All 78 seater aircraft. Also offering connections during the winter to so many destinations I cannot be bothered to list them. Needless to say if you look at the online timetable it speaks volumes.

It really frustrates me that people seem to have an opinion on a company that is one of the most succesful companies around at the moment in comparison to its competitors. If you honestly feel that GR are a better company than Flybe in terms of service to the community it is worrying

[Ayline]

Long live Aurigny

I would like to start by saying that despite my user name I do not work for Aurigny nor am I related to anyone that does. The only connection I have with Aurigny is that I am a Guernsey tax payer. You raise some interesting points Cloud1. Firstly you state as regards the Guernsey-Manchester route that "Flybe made clear from day one was only a summer route" which isn't true as Flybe actually operated the Guernsey-Manchester last winter. It was terminated on the 7th January 2008 leaving Aurigny to run the service through the lean months of January and February. Once the summer came Flybe was back on the route to take the cream of the summer traffic only to terminate the route again as soon as Autumn approached. Secondly the Dublin routes and Paris routes were promoted as year round routes and I quote from the Flybe website: "Flybe, Europe’s largest regional airline, has today announced the addition of a brand new, three times a week non-stop route to Dublin for Guernsey passengers effective 7th June. The year round route will hugely benefit both business and leisure travellers who can now book the non-stop service to the Irish capital" and "Flybe, Europe’s largest regional low cost airline, is following up the launch of its 2008 summer schedule with a new year-round, four times a week route to the French capital city of Paris, effective 11th July". At the time of the announcement of the Dublin route Blue Islands had been advertising their new CI-Dublin route but that was axed before it got off the ground due to the forthcoming competition from Flybe. The year round Blue Islands service to Paris (Beauvais) was understandably axed the day before Flybe started Guernsey-Paris (a route which incidentally Flybe operated for barely 3 months). Guernsey would probably still have a year round Blue Islands Paris service had it not been for the bully boy tactics of Flybe. It appears that whenever another carrier decides to make a go of a new route Flybe comes along and operates the route for a few months simply to stamp out the competition from the smaller operators. Turning to airfares now lets take next week as an example this is what Flybe will charge you for a day return flight from Guernsey to Gatwick (Aurigny fares in brackets): Mon: £249.98 (£217), Tue: £283.98 (£195), Wed: £187.98 (£161), Thurs: £186.98 (£161) and Fri: £233.98 (£217). On every day Aurigny is cheaper you get a newspaper and a choice of hot and cold drinks and you don't have to pay £15.98 for the privilege of placing a bag in the hold. One wonders what the Flybe fares would be if there was no Aurigny operating on the route. Flybe keep expressing their concern as to how much Aurigny is costing the Guernsey taxpayers. I have never known an airline to show so much concern for taxpayers! The Guernsey taxpayers don't seem to share Flybe's concern as when polled in the summer 80% of Guernsey taxpayers stated that they wanted the government to retain ownership of the airline. Guernsey residents haven't forgotten what happened to their Guernsey-Heathrow link - it was axed by the sole operator in exchange for £10M worth of Heathrow slots. Wasn't Flybe asking the taxpayers of Guernsey and Jersey for financial assistance to help in the launch of the Paris route? As I understand it Flybe were given financial incentives by the States of Guernsey to help them start the Dublin and Paris routes and there is no guarante that we will see either of these routes return. To conclude I certainly wouldn't be delighted to see Flybe pull out of the island. I understand that they have to make a profit and can't operate loss making routes but they need to do more to earn the respect of islanders and that can't be achieved for instance by placing adverts in the local paper making negative remarks about Aurigny - remember the one about G-JOEY?

[Feet on ground]

Well said Ayline, couldn't have put it better myself.

"Cloud1" obviously can't spell Cuckoo!

[Geo73]

Excellent post Ayline.

[kuningan]

Originally Posted by Cloud1

It really frustrates me that people seem to have an opinion on a company that is one of the most succesful companies around at the moment in comparison to its competitors. If you honestly feel that GR are a better company than Flybe in terms of service to the community it is worrying

You've just seen a range of opinions all negative about the way Flybe is perceived. That indeed is worrying - for Flybe. Given their track records, yes I do think that GR serves the community of Guernsey better - but that's not surprising, since the community of Guernsey are their shareholders. People have long memories, as some of the posts above illustrate - and Flybe's commitment to its bottom line, at the cost of reliability to the community - (which is understandable) - has not endeared it to Guernsey

[GroundBunnie]

Quote<<Turning to airfares now lets take next week as an example this is what Flybe will charge you for a day return flight from Guernsey to Gatwick (Aurigny fares in brackets): Mon: £249.98 (£217), Tue: £283.98 (£195), Wed: £187.98 (£161), Thurs: £186.98 (£161) and Fri: £233.98 (£217). On every day Aurigny is cheaper you get a newspaper and a choice of hot and cold drinks and you don't have to pay £15.98 for the privilege of placing a bag in the hold.>>

Ayline - I understand how the Islanders 'feel' about Flybe, and given the fares you've quoted, why do Flybe get any business? Are the Aurigny flights to LGW totally full all day?

GB

[quazz]

No matter what people feel about certain airlines passengers generally as a rule book with whoever is cheapest at the time. If you have enough money to book a full fare 250 pound ticket when another airline is offering a 70 pound ticket then I really envy you.

I hate flying with ryanair but if they are alot cheaper than british airways then i will grit my teeth and get treated like cattle for a few hours

[kuningan]

Originally Posted by GroundBunny

given the fares you've quoted, why do Flybe get any business?

I regularly fly GCI-LGW and almost always Flybe is more expensive than Aurigny. And that's before their 'hidden extras' kick in.

I wonder if Flybe have more corporate business which fills the aircraft at 'corporate' rates - bumping up the rate for the rest of us SLF? I don't know if Aurigny do corporate rates - I infer from Flybe's website that they do.

[Chris Gains]

Just a small point but:-
One company charge more but the company is currently making money
Another company charge less and are currently loosing money with the Guernsey tax payer picking up the bill (approx. £15 per Guernsey Resident so far this year).............

Is it me or am I missing the point?
If Guernsey were in the EU would this constitute illegal state aid? (Not that it's stopped Italy and Alitalia!!!!)

[Feet on ground]

You can't make assumptions about an airlines profitability based on the prices on 1 route over 1 week, when Aurigny have 8 routes, and flybe have 170+. It also stands to reason that flybe will have a greater share of the Guernsey Gatwick market that originates in the UK, due to their far greater brand awareness and marketing actiity there.

But if I was a betting man I would think that Aurigny's current financial problems are more to do with another airline that is making similarly large losses flying 12 x J31s a day between Guernsey and Jersey, whilst "buying" all the corporate business.

[uncovered]

if only Stuart Falla had stayed on and become First Minister

A Guernsey Politician who speaks sense !!!!

THE States should never have bought Aurigny, according to former deputy chief minister Stuart Falla (pictured).
The Garenne Group chairman was yesterday asked about the loss-making airline’s future. He was speaking at a Chamber of Commerce and Young Business Group workshop for small and medium-sized businesses.

And although he considered it a mistake for the States to have agreed to purchase the airline in 2003, Mr Falla, who was in the House from 2004 to 2008 - said that now would not be the time to sell it.

‘A body such as the States of Guernsey cannot run a trading company. I came across some fantastic civil servants in the States, as well as some not so good ones, but their whole experience is not about running a company. But I would not sell it in the current climate because it has no value.’

It was revealed in last week’s 2009 Budget that Aurigny had lost more than £1m. in the first eight months of the year.

To continue trading its holding company, Cabernet Ltd, has also been forced to enter into a short-term borrowing arrangement with Royal Bank of Scotland International for up to £1.75m. until March 2009, having also hit the limit of a £4.2m. loan facility backed by the States three years ago.

Article posted on 13th November, 2008 - 2.29pm Press and Star