HEATHROW
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Hi again, i have to agree on its BAA (the company) that has let them get away with accerating the time it take to check a person, you are right they should have stop them from not doing their job properly, But im afraifd as you well know it saves them alot of money for them to let the guards get away with it.
A) i would say the 2 hour waiting time is a bit much !! more like 45 minutes at the mo everyone tends to times there waiting time by 1.5,
Like how long it takes for a dispatcher to arrive at flights during some parts of the day at Heathrow.
B) Another thing is that there is enough security lanes and its not a thing about space its more to do with not having allocatied enough staff to an area to run all the machines.
use to be 9 machines on INT in T1 with only about 4-6 running!!
Thats the problem not space!!
And the silly thing for BAA is when this Passengers are in the "2 hour" infact only 10-50 minutes the passengers are are not in the shops making them money!! and inturn arriving at the flight ready and in a good mood to by Duty Free!!.
A) i would say the 2 hour waiting time is a bit much !! more like 45 minutes at the mo everyone tends to times there waiting time by 1.5,
Like how long it takes for a dispatcher to arrive at flights during some parts of the day at Heathrow.
B) Another thing is that there is enough security lanes and its not a thing about space its more to do with not having allocatied enough staff to an area to run all the machines.
use to be 9 machines on INT in T1 with only about 4-6 running!!
Thats the problem not space!!
And the silly thing for BAA is when this Passengers are in the "2 hour" infact only 10-50 minutes the passengers are are not in the shops making them money!! and inturn arriving at the flight ready and in a good mood to by Duty Free!!.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Or yer and that same filth should go in a couple of years when BA getT5
And T2 goes,
It all of the local crap about not wanting a new terminal thats also delayed things.
Think if the Public reviews didnt go on T5 would be open now.
And that rubbish and filth in the terminal we all have to work in it infact some of us have to chase it down the taxiway so it doesnt go in your engines.
Cheers
And T2 goes,
It all of the local crap about not wanting a new terminal thats also delayed things.
Think if the Public reviews didnt go on T5 would be open now.
And that rubbish and filth in the terminal we all have to work in it infact some of us have to chase it down the taxiway so it doesnt go in your engines.
Cheers
From personal experience in T4 2 weeks ago I waited in excess of 45 minutes after a BA ground staff member had taken me to the front of the landside queue due only 50 mins to departure. From there it took 45 mins due only 2 machines in operation. I remonstrated with the security Duty manager who had no idea of the length of the queue's landside and agreed that only 2 machines was disgraceful?
Last week all X-ray machines working but not enough walkthrough scanners and queue was 20 minutes.
The BAA obviously has a problem managing their security and should get their finger out now!!!
Last week all X-ray machines working but not enough walkthrough scanners and queue was 20 minutes.
The BAA obviously has a problem managing their security and should get their finger out now!!!
If this sort of continual mismanagement, delay and incompetent planning were happening anywhere else in the aviation process, like engineering, ops, or whatever, the responsible management would have been taken to task and then removed long ago.
Yet somehow security seem able to get out of it with a cry of "well it's for security so you can't touch me".
Yes, security management. Either do your job and manage the security procedures effectively, up to specification, competently, politely, without delays, and without impacting on the rest of the organisation, or stand aside and let someone who can deliver all of these take over. In the general scale of airline operations it's one of the easier tasks.
Yet somehow security seem able to get out of it with a cry of "well it's for security so you can't touch me".
Yes, security management. Either do your job and manage the security procedures effectively, up to specification, competently, politely, without delays, and without impacting on the rest of the organisation, or stand aside and let someone who can deliver all of these take over. In the general scale of airline operations it's one of the easier tasks.
T4 yesterday had two machines not operating for some reason. And is it 5 or 6 machines in total? The management of BAA/HAL are obviously totally incompetent in not having fixed this problem, and ought to be fired.
Join Date: Oct 2002
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The extra time in the queue is nothing to do with security. It is all to do with the appearance of security. They have to be "seen to be doing something" after failing the checks.
I say this beacuse a Captian I was flying with was refused access airside recently. He was in uniform, and had his ID. When this failed to swipe, he showed his passport and licence - not good enough for the security guard, he had to show a crew manifest. Lucky we had one. Now where on earth does it say we need a crew manifest to get airside? The fact his pass didn't swipe was not the Captain's fault - it was one of the new issue ID's that BAA haven't got working yet.
This whole process took about 10 minutes, while others waited patiently behind. I then went through and the didn't even swipe my pass!!!!!
I say this beacuse a Captian I was flying with was refused access airside recently. He was in uniform, and had his ID. When this failed to swipe, he showed his passport and licence - not good enough for the security guard, he had to show a crew manifest. Lucky we had one. Now where on earth does it say we need a crew manifest to get airside? The fact his pass didn't swipe was not the Captain's fault - it was one of the new issue ID's that BAA haven't got working yet.
This whole process took about 10 minutes, while others waited patiently behind. I then went through and the didn't even swipe my pass!!!!!
Simply put, BAA are short of 300 staff. And therein lies the problem. Staff leaving, resigning or retiring out outweighing the recruitment. Apparently it takes 4 months to get a new guard on line with all the checks and training. Also with the current intake of 100, only 70 are left after just 6 weeks. Inside source stated that they only expect 40 to pass final tests and go on to line work.
Originally Posted by slingsby
BAA are short of 300 staff ..... Staff leaving, resigning or retiring out outweighing the recruitment. Apparently it takes 4 months to get a new guard on line with all the checks and training. Also with the current intake of 100, only 70 are left after just 6 weeks. Inside source stated that they only expect 40 to pass final tests and go on to line work.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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short of staff... didnt they announce mega redundancies around Christmas time last year? second some managers into these "security roles" to get things moving. Clear the landside road queues for a start, the congestion can be terrible as AllDayDeli says.
Join Date: Jul 2003
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I am a regular traveller and can only agree with Sunfish. I travel from my local airport which is Southampton and is efficent and the staff helpful to other European airports were I can then travel long haul. I cannot stand LHR and would rather pay more to fly from somewhere else. Heathrow is a paradise however compared to the terminals at LAX!!!
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Originally Posted by WHBM
And for how long have these been typical figures ? Years I suspect. And has anything been done about it ? No.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Hi,
The thing is that the guards, which wait upto 5 hours before having a break.
The Supervisor which are stuck in the middle between upset passengers / airlines / guards / managers have to try and find the mid point to try and keep everyone happy with the resourse.
The Front line managers all say that theres not enough staff to run the process properly,
Its the upper managers with the budgets that is causing all this the front line staff are just doing it how they think is best for everyone.
The thing about the pilot with a id that doesnt swipe. is lucky he got in that quick. It isnt stand process to allow them in on a manifest.
What would happen if a person turn up with and id that does swipe a fake liance anda dodgy uniform would you let him in?? then everyone would moan about how he shouldnt have been allowed in.
I totally agree with the fact its not acceptable that you have to wait long periods of time but i do think that the frontline staff are doing it the best way. with what they have which is not enough staff. to many empty machines, late breaks. Yes the staff do need a break they are cant go on forever.
So if think having a pop on the low part of the tree level is just making it it worst.
Anyway i wont write anymore.
Cheers
The thing is that the guards, which wait upto 5 hours before having a break.
The Supervisor which are stuck in the middle between upset passengers / airlines / guards / managers have to try and find the mid point to try and keep everyone happy with the resourse.
The Front line managers all say that theres not enough staff to run the process properly,
Its the upper managers with the budgets that is causing all this the front line staff are just doing it how they think is best for everyone.
The thing about the pilot with a id that doesnt swipe. is lucky he got in that quick. It isnt stand process to allow them in on a manifest.
What would happen if a person turn up with and id that does swipe a fake liance anda dodgy uniform would you let him in?? then everyone would moan about how he shouldnt have been allowed in.
I totally agree with the fact its not acceptable that you have to wait long periods of time but i do think that the frontline staff are doing it the best way. with what they have which is not enough staff. to many empty machines, late breaks. Yes the staff do need a break they are cant go on forever.
So if think having a pop on the low part of the tree level is just making it it worst.
Anyway i wont write anymore.
Cheers
I have an extremely simple cure for this entire problem. It could be implemented in a matter of months, and it is guaranteed to produce a security workforce that is competent, fast, helpful, friendly and efficent
Offer to pay the Security Guards 200,000 pounds a year.
It's always the same problem when you hear the "we can't recruit enough staff" what they really mean is "We can't find competent people who will work for us for the miserable amount we are offering to pay them
To put it another way you get what you pay for
Offer to pay the Security Guards 200,000 pounds a year.
It's always the same problem when you hear the "we can't recruit enough staff" what they really mean is "We can't find competent people who will work for us for the miserable amount we are offering to pay them
To put it another way you get what you pay for
Join Date: Dec 2000
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To an outsider , it would appear that it is a work-to rule/go slow practice....
the other sunday morning at 0530 it took us over an hour and a quarter to get through at the entry point by 'Gate Gourmet' roundabout - we got on the a/c 20 mins after take-off.
If they're not being given the resources then fair enough - but with BAA's big profits, surely they do not want every a/c taking off an hour late due to logistics.
This needs sorting out. Fast.
the other sunday morning at 0530 it took us over an hour and a quarter to get through at the entry point by 'Gate Gourmet' roundabout - we got on the a/c 20 mins after take-off.
If they're not being given the resources then fair enough - but with BAA's big profits, surely they do not want every a/c taking off an hour late due to logistics.
This needs sorting out. Fast.
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Hi all,
A couple of replys to some of the comments in the last few emails.
Anti-Ice.good comments and you seem to view it from both angles:-
"If they're not being given the resources then fair enough - but with BAA's big profits, surely they do not want every a/c taking off an hour late due to logistics"
it is a resource problem and the bit about work to rule.
Well its exactly what it is. Thats how it should be!! Unfortunatly the resources in place are for people that dont work to rule.
Which im afraid happened many times to get people through to flights, the guards started to fail the tests and for their own job security which is what really matters to live. They have to do the job how it should be done. I.e work to rule. Which causes queues until BAA managment admit that for the job to be done to the rule book they need more staff. they are getting more staff but from now till then its going to be crap!!
---------------------------------------------------------------
About billing BAA for long queues. This does happen.
The BAA and airlines have agreed a limit to how long queue time can be and if they go over this time more than a fix amount of occasions then they have to pay all the airlines effected a certain amount of money more for the more common airlines based on % of flights.
This is the same of the other hand. when an airline doesnt push back for other reasons they too have to pay up so basically the money goes back and forth, looking at the queses more money is going from BAA to the airlines i would guess.
Not to mention how much BAA is losing from retail when the passengers spend an hour in a queue when they could be spending an hour in the shops.
by cutting the queues everyone could make a lot more money!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------
cheers
A couple of replys to some of the comments in the last few emails.
Anti-Ice.good comments and you seem to view it from both angles:-
"If they're not being given the resources then fair enough - but with BAA's big profits, surely they do not want every a/c taking off an hour late due to logistics"
it is a resource problem and the bit about work to rule.
Well its exactly what it is. Thats how it should be!! Unfortunatly the resources in place are for people that dont work to rule.
Which im afraid happened many times to get people through to flights, the guards started to fail the tests and for their own job security which is what really matters to live. They have to do the job how it should be done. I.e work to rule. Which causes queues until BAA managment admit that for the job to be done to the rule book they need more staff. they are getting more staff but from now till then its going to be crap!!
---------------------------------------------------------------
About billing BAA for long queues. This does happen.
The BAA and airlines have agreed a limit to how long queue time can be and if they go over this time more than a fix amount of occasions then they have to pay all the airlines effected a certain amount of money more for the more common airlines based on % of flights.
This is the same of the other hand. when an airline doesnt push back for other reasons they too have to pay up so basically the money goes back and forth, looking at the queses more money is going from BAA to the airlines i would guess.
Not to mention how much BAA is losing from retail when the passengers spend an hour in a queue when they could be spending an hour in the shops.
by cutting the queues everyone could make a lot more money!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------
cheers
Join Date: May 2003
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If passengers get a wiff if this then perhaps they can bill the airline and the airport for delays too. In the old days it was turn up an hour before a flight, then it was two and now its about four.
It really does prove the old maxim, "time to spare go by air".
Eurostar to Paris really is a much more pleasant way to go.
It really does prove the old maxim, "time to spare go by air".
Eurostar to Paris really is a much more pleasant way to go.