SAA flight from heathrow to Cape town
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SAA flight from heathrow to Cape town
Hi guys,
Not sure if I'm posting in the right location so sorry if I am!
I had quite a terrible flight back to heathrow from Toronto last May. Was the worst chop I'd experienced one of the crew members got injured.
It put me off flying for a while now.
But now I've booked a flight with SAA to Cape town 1 stop in Johannesburg!
I just wanted to know if anyone has flown this route and how the turbulence is in general here if it is a choppy ride in general?
And also If anyone has ever used South African Airways before, and how are they with service and pilot experience and so on?
Thanks for reading!
And apologies again if I've posted in the incorrect area!
Not sure if I'm posting in the right location so sorry if I am!
I had quite a terrible flight back to heathrow from Toronto last May. Was the worst chop I'd experienced one of the crew members got injured.
It put me off flying for a while now.
But now I've booked a flight with SAA to Cape town 1 stop in Johannesburg!
I just wanted to know if anyone has flown this route and how the turbulence is in general here if it is a choppy ride in general?
And also If anyone has ever used South African Airways before, and how are they with service and pilot experience and so on?
Thanks for reading!
And apologies again if I've posted in the incorrect area!
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Hi Vanja,
although I've only used the Heathrow - Jo'burg route once (about 3 years ago) I found it to be a reasonably good experience. My Father uses SAA 2 - 3 times a year on the same route, and prefers them to the other providers based on service (he found virgin were really bad) and price.
As for turbulence is concerned, I don't think he has ever experienced any turbulence worth mentioning. I hope this little bit of experience helps.
although I've only used the Heathrow - Jo'burg route once (about 3 years ago) I found it to be a reasonably good experience. My Father uses SAA 2 - 3 times a year on the same route, and prefers them to the other providers based on service (he found virgin were really bad) and price.
As for turbulence is concerned, I don't think he has ever experienced any turbulence worth mentioning. I hope this little bit of experience helps.
Son of Slot
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Hi Vanja and welcome to PPRuNe!
Yes, you are posting in exactly the right place. We have a number of regulars here who are regulars on the South African routes and they will answer your question, as Ad C has already done.
Yes, you are posting in exactly the right place. We have a number of regulars here who are regulars on the South African routes and they will answer your question, as Ad C has already done.
Paxing All Over The World
I've been travelling LHR ~ JNB or direct to CPT for 49 years. It is MUCH smoother than it used to be because weather rader is GOOD 
That said, there is something called the Intertropical Convergence Zone (ITCZ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intert...nvergence_Zone and that is unpredictable. Sometimes, turbulence cannot be avoided. On my last trip of LHR/JNB/LHR last November it was as smooth as I have become used to.
SAA still have a good reputation and no worries, both domestic and international. Do let us know how you get on.
That said, there is something called the Intertropical Convergence Zone (ITCZ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intert...nvergence_Zone and that is unpredictable. Sometimes, turbulence cannot be avoided. On my last trip of LHR/JNB/LHR last November it was as smooth as I have become used to.
SAA still have a good reputation and no worries, both domestic and international. Do let us know how you get on.
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You should be OK as long as your crew on the day manages to avoid one of those giant Equatorial Thunderstorms - which, unfortunately, the crew of a Swiftair MD83 couldn't manage to do, and the rest is history. That is an extremely rare occurrence, mind.
Son of Slot
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carbheatout
Given that the original poster (o/p) had stated they were a nervous passenger, I don't think that citing a very unusual incident is that helpful.
Vanja Don't be concerned. the Swiftair event was an extreme event.
Given that the original poster (o/p) had stated they were a nervous passenger, I don't think that citing a very unusual incident is that helpful.
Vanja Don't be concerned. the Swiftair event was an extreme event.
Está servira para distraerle.
Pilots in SAA are well trained and extremely well paid by international standards. Someone once said over paid actually.
Cabin crew, well, do familiarize yourself with the safety card in the seat pocket and don't expect anything other than the most perfunctory service. Anything else would be a bonus. Someone said that was a generalization of course.
The approximate position of the ITCZ can be gauged before departure by reference to this link.
The ITCZ in Africa
Keep your seat belt loosely fastened at all time, be aware of the position of the nearest sick bag and you will be fine.
By the way, chop at altitude tends to be caused by a jet stream. The ITCZ can produce movements more akin to bull riding at Madison Square Gardens.
Don't forget that the wing of a 747 can move twenty seven feet in the vertical plane at the tip before structural damage limitations are exceeded. Obviously the arc of movement is greater down than up. At twenty nine feet of arc the wing breaks off. That's a lot of safety margin.
Edit to add that I fly a lot between Amsterdam and Johannesburg and that I can do it myself.
Cabin crew, well, do familiarize yourself with the safety card in the seat pocket and don't expect anything other than the most perfunctory service. Anything else would be a bonus. Someone said that was a generalization of course.
The approximate position of the ITCZ can be gauged before departure by reference to this link.
The ITCZ in Africa
Keep your seat belt loosely fastened at all time, be aware of the position of the nearest sick bag and you will be fine.
By the way, chop at altitude tends to be caused by a jet stream. The ITCZ can produce movements more akin to bull riding at Madison Square Gardens.
Don't forget that the wing of a 747 can move twenty seven feet in the vertical plane at the tip before structural damage limitations are exceeded. Obviously the arc of movement is greater down than up. At twenty nine feet of arc the wing breaks off. That's a lot of safety margin.
Edit to add that I fly a lot between Amsterdam and Johannesburg and that I can do it myself.
Last edited by cavortingcheetah; 11th Mar 2015 at 07:49.
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Cavorting Cheetah
I think if flying SAA it will be 340 / 330 rather than 747.
Vanja
Also with SAA flying at Night you will not get the rising heat of the Sahara, which you can get on daylight crossings, which does cause turbulence. ITCZ has always got to be crossed, but as has been said by PAXboy weather radar has improved, but as always keep that belt on when sat down. I think the biggest shock you may get when flying over Africa for the first time is how big she is (just see how slowly the little plane moves on the inflight map!), and to a degree how few lights there are below you.
Have a good trip.
I think if flying SAA it will be 340 / 330 rather than 747.
Vanja
Also with SAA flying at Night you will not get the rising heat of the Sahara, which you can get on daylight crossings, which does cause turbulence. ITCZ has always got to be crossed, but as has been said by PAXboy weather radar has improved, but as always keep that belt on when sat down. I think the biggest shock you may get when flying over Africa for the first time is how big she is (just see how slowly the little plane moves on the inflight map!), and to a degree how few lights there are below you.
Have a good trip.
Está servira para distraerle.
Thank you Mr Mac. I don't think that the A340 wing probably has any flexibility in it at all which explains why the aircraft is as automated as it is. Humans cannot be trusted to fly airbuses. Have you heard any stories of the A340 wings flexing alarmingly as the aircraft flies over the ascending heat waves from the Sahara Desert? You'd better know the name of the Prophet's mother if you ever ditch down there. Personally and as regards SAA and the kit they use, I'd far prefer KLM and the Boeing 777, which is a magnificent machine.
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Mr Mac, that's interesting about rising heat causing turbulence, never heard that before at altitude.
SOS, point taken. I don't mean to scare anybody unduly. However, i find it fascinating to watch peoples attitudes to weather radar returns. Its generally the older guys that come out with the lines like 'aah what you scared of? In the old days we didn't have radar and would fly through things much worst than that' as they point out of the window....
SOS, point taken. I don't mean to scare anybody unduly. However, i find it fascinating to watch peoples attitudes to weather radar returns. Its generally the older guys that come out with the lines like 'aah what you scared of? In the old days we didn't have radar and would fly through things much worst than that' as they point out of the window....
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Carbheatout
My knowledge of heat at altitude over the Sahara is purely based on the difference I used to feel on the BA flights down to Kenya when BA had both a night and day flight. Invariably the night flight appeared to be smoother, a point confirmed by CC and the flight deck. This was pre 9/11 so if you asked nicely in the middle of the night you could go up to have a look at the stars , gas flares, and large crop circles over southern Libya, as well as a chat. On daytime flights sometimes in the Spring you noted dust storms which appeared to reach 25k ft and those flights were notably bumpy in comparison.
Cavortingcheetah
I would say my experience of 340 is very limited having only flown on EK,SQ,LH A/C and not often, and indeed only one was over the Sahara down to Ghana with LH. Most of my African flying was with BA when I worked in that patch, and the A/C were either 777 or 747, so the bumpy flights were on Boeings, although an Airbus would have bounced just as much I dare say in those conditions !.
I am not a pilot, or really an enthusiast , just an interested passenger so my observations are those from that perspective, although one who does spend rather a lot more than most of his time in A/C and airports.
Prophets mother is I believe, Aminah Bint Wahb, from memory, but please do not quote me !!
Regards
Mr Mac
My knowledge of heat at altitude over the Sahara is purely based on the difference I used to feel on the BA flights down to Kenya when BA had both a night and day flight. Invariably the night flight appeared to be smoother, a point confirmed by CC and the flight deck. This was pre 9/11 so if you asked nicely in the middle of the night you could go up to have a look at the stars , gas flares, and large crop circles over southern Libya, as well as a chat. On daytime flights sometimes in the Spring you noted dust storms which appeared to reach 25k ft and those flights were notably bumpy in comparison.
Cavortingcheetah
I would say my experience of 340 is very limited having only flown on EK,SQ,LH A/C and not often, and indeed only one was over the Sahara down to Ghana with LH. Most of my African flying was with BA when I worked in that patch, and the A/C were either 777 or 747, so the bumpy flights were on Boeings, although an Airbus would have bounced just as much I dare say in those conditions !.
I am not a pilot, or really an enthusiast , just an interested passenger so my observations are those from that perspective, although one who does spend rather a lot more than most of his time in A/C and airports.
Prophets mother is I believe, Aminah Bint Wahb, from memory, but please do not quote me !!
Regards
Mr Mac
Last edited by Mr Mac; 13th Mar 2015 at 12:35.
Son of Slot
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Thanks carbheatout, I tend to err on the side of caution with our newest PAX but, after a couple of sectors in this forum? They can dodge the trollies and brickbats for themselves. 
I certainly recall an encounter with the ITCZ at altitude before weather radar had become sophisticated. Also there was, I think, less concern about the Pax being bounced a bit - it was just part of the deal. Nowadays, a smooth flight is seen as good customer relations.
I certainly recall an encounter with the ITCZ at altitude before weather radar had become sophisticated. Also there was, I think, less concern about the Pax being bounced a bit - it was just part of the deal. Nowadays, a smooth flight is seen as good customer relations.
Está servira para distraerle.
The thing with the ITCZ is that it can extend as a band across Africa for many hundreds of miles. In terms of fuel endurance it can therefore be impossible to fly around. You sometimes have to go through it. Today's weather radars are colour contoured and more besides, accurate and reliable aids to storm navigation. In the elder days as I remember, radars were very crude and a big black screen could mean either that there was nothing around for miles or that you had inadvertently flown into the eye of the storm and were about to experience an unpleasant exit.
With most of the carriers for which I flew,the weather radars never functioned well or at all. A defunct weather radar was only a no go item if thunderstorms were actually forecast on the route to be flown, at that level, at that time, which of course, they never were. If you ever even mentioned the fact that you might encounter an Rx and that really, really, the radar ought to be serviceable, OPS would become most upset and you'd have to speak with the Chief Pilot.
Edit: Just to tidy up some atrocious grammar.
With most of the carriers for which I flew,the weather radars never functioned well or at all. A defunct weather radar was only a no go item if thunderstorms were actually forecast on the route to be flown, at that level, at that time, which of course, they never were. If you ever even mentioned the fact that you might encounter an Rx and that really, really, the radar ought to be serviceable, OPS would become most upset and you'd have to speak with the Chief Pilot.
Edit: Just to tidy up some atrocious grammar.
Last edited by cavortingcheetah; 13th Mar 2015 at 16:56.
If it's any comfort, over forty years as a professional pilot I never experienced extreme turbulence and only a few times moderate to severe.
S1 had light/moderate most of the way back from NY last week; I guess they were on the edge of a jetstream where the eddies have the same effect as waves on a ship.
As has been pointed out by the erudite, the ITCZ is sometimes there and sometimes not in evidence - odd that.
As has also been noted, weather radar is essential to thread one's way through a line of cumulo-nimbus and is, in some cases, a no-go item if unserviceable.
If it does get a bit turbulent, always remember: people pay a lot of money for that kind of ride at Universal Studios and there you are getting it FOC
Yes, OK; didn't go down terribly well when I said it on an aeroplane either.
S1 had light/moderate most of the way back from NY last week; I guess they were on the edge of a jetstream where the eddies have the same effect as waves on a ship.
As has been pointed out by the erudite, the ITCZ is sometimes there and sometimes not in evidence - odd that.
As has also been noted, weather radar is essential to thread one's way through a line of cumulo-nimbus and is, in some cases, a no-go item if unserviceable.
If it does get a bit turbulent, always remember: people pay a lot of money for that kind of ride at Universal Studios and there you are getting it FOC
Yes, OK; didn't go down terribly well when I said it on an aeroplane either.
