Which fight school to choose, One with Frasca 131/142 or FNPT II???
I wanted to do my training from South Africa.... Initially I had short listed a number of flight schools in South Africa. But later reuced to 43 air, Progress, Safta, Aptrac.
43 has got all that I need that is PPL+ CPL+ f ATPL +MCC but found it a bit too costly. I didn't find Aptrac all that good.(I have not visited any of the school but it is my personal opinion looking at their website and the phonetic conversation).
Now I have two options, Progress and SAFTA.
Progress uses Frasca 131/142 for simulator training. 42 hours on Seminole with 2 hours solo on seminole.
SAFTA uses FNPT II for simulator training. 11 hrs ME. and is comparatively cheaper.
Anyone having experience in any of these flight schools please share it with me. also tell me which school to choose... the one with Frasca 131/142 or the one with FNPT II.
Also tell me if there is any school in/ around port Elizabeth that provides modular MCC course.
Last edited by wannabepilot1991; 7th Sep 2012 at 12:14.
Don't worry about your simulator time, doesn't mean anything in the long run, I went to 43 in the old days, they only had an old simulator, looked like something out of WW2! haha. All schools down there are pretty much the same, 43 just being really expensive. And this story about doing 42 hours on a seminole? What on earth for??? Remember that at the end of the day you want to come out with a Twin IF rating... Now the cheapest way to go about that is to do a single comm with a twin IF rating. What that means is at the end of all your training you go and do a day single test on say a Piper Arrow, thats forced landings, stalls etc. Then you start with your twin IF rating on say a Seneca and then test on the Seneca doing and IF test. When all is said and done you walk away with exactly the same piece of paper per say, you are just saving about 10 hours on a Seneca. I finished at 43 with 17 hours on a Seneca, much cheaper than 42! And as for the simulator, don't worry in your career you are going to fly a multitude of them, old and new. Hope this helps.
42 hours on a twin? There's a sting in there somewhere. Do all your training on a single. Don't worry about the simulator at your level all of them are nothing more than systems trainers although some are nicer than others. Five to seven hours on the twin including all testing should warp up your twin rating and IF check. That's more because the CAA like to see a few hours in the machine. Hope that's about right. 42 hours on a twin? Either you got it wrong. Someone gave you duff info. Someone's trying a scam. What do you think?
@cavortingcheetah 42 hours are right.... the others who are going to join with me got the same no. of hours and cost...Progress is a well known academy, so it cannot be scam. BTW thanx for ur advice. i guess its a waste of money on these many hours in ME.
Do you mean 42 hours on a Seminole simulator? That could be cheaper than 42 hours on a real life Cherokee 140 . But then on what aircraft do you do your cross country flights and general handling tests? Progress have a good reputation. Never heard of SAFTA. Heidelberg might drive you to drink.
Last edited by cavortingcheetah; 14th Sep 2012 at 15:34.
I'm sorry but 42 hours is ridiculous and IS an absolute scam. You do realise what you are doing and why you are doing it on a Seminole? All you are doing is a conversion onto the aircraft, its called your initial twin conversion. Thereafter you want to do a few hours practicing IF on it for your test. Probably 2 or 3 ILS's / VOR approaches and then upper air work. The simulator is used to get your procedures and calls correctly, so use it a lot! To be charged 42 hours is going to be over R100 000! You can get a 737 or A320 rating and not do anywhere near that amount of hours! Why not go around and ask the pilots who have finished their comm / atp etc and ask how many hours they did on a twin when they were training (and not guys from the same school who finished 2 weeks ago!) I'm telling you from my experience I didn't even get to 20 hours on a Seneca, and as far as I know my old ATP is worth the same as a new ATP... ohh and it took 30min to fly to an airport with a VOR / ILS to practice!
All i can say is compare apples with apples. Look at the cost of the aircraft per hour and the amount of flying being quoted. Tell Progress to restructure your course to suite your pocket. I can say back in my days, Progress offered an extremely good twin conversion with high level of training. Just tell them the bulk of IF training to be done on a single to reduce your budget then compare and decide.
thanx for your advice @cavortingcheetah @always flying @revertedrubber ..... it has really helped..... it I think I should better call progress and see if they reduce the hours on ME and increase on SE.... I tried the same with 43 but they refused to do so...according to them we will be needing min 31 hours on ME for training.
@cavortingcheetah the 42 hours and 31 hours are the actual fight hours.
Last edited by wannabepilot1991; 16th Sep 2012 at 13:59.
Thinking back, the minimum for initial multi rating was around 6 hours and Progress was doing around 10 hours and that was if you were competent. Having instructed there and on multi engine aircraft i can assure you that 10 hours for an initial multi is a good idea. Then bear in mind that a multi engine IF test will require competency in IF procedures and engine failure procedures. A lot of this procedural stuff can be done in the Frasca 141 then the multi aircraft. I would like to hazard a guess with no experience at least 20 hours should be done on a multi engine and thats if you are sharp. Ask them to tailer the IF course half SE and the other half ME to reduce your costs and still get quality hours and training. Remember you are the customer and sure they will try to accommodate but also bear in mind that your individual performance will determine how many hours you need.
@revertedrubber thats how the course has been tailored, half single and half multi. i agree totally wid you... among all the training schools clubs and academies that I have seen, only Progress and 43 gives these many hours on multi engine.... I have mailed them regarding this and Ill also call the tomorrow, hopefully I get a positive reply.
Checked my records back in my Progress days! Plus minus here goes, initial multi engine rating 9hrs including test, Frasca 141 IF training 9hrs, IF prep in seminole 16.0hrs and solo consolidation in seminole 6.0hrs. Back in my day you needed that to survive and get a recommendation from Captain Black Beard
Do us a favour, just email or phone the two schools and ask them, "is it for a twin comm, twin IF... ...OR... a single comm, twin IF" ....They will give you two prices and a breakdown, let us know what they say.
Sorry for late reply but was waiting for the schools response. according to them its twin IR and as for commercial part they do on both....And I still haven't got any reply from Progress.... I had asked them whether I can reduce the hours on ME and Do them on SE.... the lady said she would be confirming with the head of training for this....
You should get a written and specific quotation from any school worth its professional salt which sets out your personal training program and tells you exactly how many hours you will be paying for and on what type of aircraft or simulator. Such a quotation would usually be valid for a set period of time only in order to forestall sudden fuel hikes. You should ask for such a quote and the school should be pleased to give you one.
jbayfan....Just saw your e mail and thank you for the kind offer. Might take you up on that next month when down again to renew SA Grade II. Delighted to see that business is booming. Still think that Heidelberg might drive one to drink though. The Concentration Camp Cemetery must be a fabulous experience on All Hallows Eve
Last edited by cavortingcheetah; 22nd Sep 2012 at 19:11.
CC, we will gladly assist with your Grade II renewal. While you are there you may want to consider an aerobatic course in our latest aircraft acquisition being a 2005 Alpha 160Ai. +6G / -3G and fully inverted oil and fuel system. She's a stunner. Our military cadets will be using her for part of their training.
PM when you are ready for your renewal and I'll meet you out there!!
Did my training at Flight Training College in George in the Cape a few years ago. Was very happy with them. They had a Twin Commanche when I was there and I believe they also have a Seneca II and a Seneca FNPTii simulator now. Their prices were very reasonable when I was looking for schools. The boss is an airline captain and gives good career advice on there website. They helped a couple of guys get jobs when they finished their CPL.