PPRuNe Forums

Go Back   PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > African Aviation
Forgotten your Username/Password?

African Aviation Regional issues that affect the numerous pilots who work in this area of the world.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 17th Feb 2012, 14:50   #1 (permalink)
JG1
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: on root
Posts: 128
SAA asks for a R6-billion handout

From news24.com

"Johannesburg - South African Airways (SAA) has asked the government for a recapitalisation of about R6bn to fund operational costs, growth strategy and fleet renewal, according to a report on Wednesday.

The requested funds would be in addition to the R1.3bn subordinated loan SAA already had from the government, Business Day reported.

It also included the company's R1.6bn "going concern" guarantee it obtained to underpin its money requirements after the auditor general raised concern last year about its ability to generate cash to fund operations.

"This year we will have to go through the same process and the guarantee required will probably be higher," SAA chief financial officer Wolf Meyer was quoted as saying. He was addressing parliament's public enterprises committee on Tuesday.

Meyer said SAA's weak balance sheet would also have to be fixed if it was going to finance growth and fleet renewal, the newspaper reported."


***

I have to say, I really do not see how the HELL the SAA pilots can justify their inflated salaries and R100k+ bonuses. If your company is not making money, time to cut costs, streamline it and make it more efficient, not run to the bloody government every year with your begging bowl.

What makes it all stick in the craw even more is the arrogant attitude of, well, hell, let me just call a spade a spade and say MOST of the pilots there.
If I worked there, for a company that cannot turn a profit even though it has a virtual monopoly, quite frankly I would be ashamed to try and justify my salary.

What a crock of Bah.
JG1 is offline   Reply
Old 18th Feb 2012, 06:24   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Southern Africa
Posts: 106
I guess the new M.D. is no better.
spacedaddy is offline   Reply
Old 18th Feb 2012, 11:19   #3 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Among camels and dunes
Posts: 339
How much did Comair ask for again....??? Someone has got it right!
Jetjock330 is offline   Reply
Old 18th Feb 2012, 12:54   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: South Africa
Posts: 167
JG1, you are one angry, frustrated and sad individual.
jbayfan is offline   Reply
Old 18th Feb 2012, 13:24   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Holding somewhere over Gangsters Paradise
Posts: 364
JG1 this is not a bail out at all but a recapitilastion in order for the airline to grow in order to expand SAA's network.

Just a little something from the CEO:
" I would like to state, once again, that this is not the case. Our airline does not need a bail out.
I re-iterate that SAA has never been properly capitalised over the past few years, and it is important that our airline is adequately capitalised to support its bold growth strategy for the next five years.
Airlines all across the globe are performing under pressure due to volatile fuel prices, low demand for air travel and increased competition on key routes. The capitalisation of our airline is linked to the growth strategy and fleet programme and is not a bail out."

So as a proud SAA pilot and one that is not ashamed to receive my salary or bonus for that matter that may come my way...get off your high horse, stop slagging something you know nothing about.....and go "bah bah baaaaaaaaaaaaaah" together with the so many sheep that ply these forums and that continually bash SAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
beechbum is offline   Reply
Old 18th Feb 2012, 14:04   #6 (permalink)
Está servira para distraerle.
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: In a perambulator.
Posts: 2,599
That's as I understand it from a recent dinner party conversation. Fleet renewal was the main reason behind the budget request as I recall and I thought it was a ten year re-equipment plan with the fervent hope expressed that airways would go for Boeing.
SAA flight crew salaries are well up on the top end of the international pay scale for pilots. Of course they're grossly overpaid but then look at the sort of places in which they have to night stop.As if London isn't already a disgusting destination full of foreign devils, they're soon to have five days in Beijing and that means they'll have to look down at their toes and not at the sky as they walk, lest they trip on the saliva laden sidewalks of the ancient city of duck worshippers.
Meanwhile, up near Bela Bela last week, another rhinoceros was slaughtered for its horn, this time by an opportunist drive by assassin who hopped over the game fence to hack off the horn before escaping down the road in his bakkie. The apocryphal aphrodisiac is quite possibly awaiting inaugural transportation to ZBAA at this very moment.
cavortingcheetah is offline   Reply
Old 18th Feb 2012, 14:04   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: A little south of the "Black Sheep" brewery
Posts: 226
They even believe their own propaganda...!!! (Normal airline have to approach investors for loans for fleet expansion, don't they? Must be nice having willing taxpayers to bail you out!!)
Trossie is offline   Reply
Old 18th Feb 2012, 14:18   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Holding somewhere over Gangsters Paradise
Posts: 364
Quote:
They even believe their own propaganda...!!!
....yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn!
You must be the head of the bah bah brigade ...if you're just south of the Black Sheep brewery then Trossie?????
beechbum is offline   Reply
Old 18th Feb 2012, 14:41   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Shower house of Africa
Posts: 213
I have to admit that it is unfair in many ways. When a private airline needs recapitalisation they have to go through a rigorous process to get the cash.

However , SAA needs to continue being an employment arm of the government just like Eskom , Denel , Transnet etc
Private carriers don't have that issue to deal with.
Ghost_Rider737 is offline   Reply
Old 18th Feb 2012, 14:56   #10 (permalink)
Está servira para distraerle.
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: In a perambulator.
Posts: 2,599
Mind you though, one has to feel dreadfully sorry for the SAA company ethos. Jacob Zuma, the President of South Africa, was so unimpressed with the standards of maintenance and quality control in the airline recently that he felt it necessary on a flight to the USA last month to have two back up aircraft along for the ride. This was a gross traducement by applied innuendo of the high standards of SAA and Mr Zuma has done nothing other than to make himself appear ridiculous whilst demeaning the national flag carrier in the process.
cavortingcheetah is offline   Reply
Old 18th Feb 2012, 15:30   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Age: 47
Posts: 117
Its a bailout yet again, they are just trying to sugar coat it in the hope they miight avoid the standand public outcry that the states aviation black hole is hungry again.

It won't expand, already the average discerning traveller avoids it like the plague. Whats the point of flying more empty seats around? The airline sucks, the service is disgusting, the standards are collapsing. Its truly no better than Transnet, from where it came and what its again being compared to.

So lets hear it from all the 'proud' SAA pilots. Why not tell us how we are all just jealous because we aren't part of your statefunded cool-kids-club.. Seems your standard line when your thieving management is standing at SARS with the well used begging bowl.

Believe me guys, you get the respect you deserve. Its just that its not the respect you expect.

Happy flying, look forward to subsidising your Benoni lifestyle with my next tax return.
Fuzzy Lager is offline   Reply
Old 18th Feb 2012, 19:32   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Holding somewhere over Gangsters Paradise
Posts: 364
Being in Fort Lauderdale you obviously haven't flown our "proud" airline in a while. Take a trip and you might be pleasantly surprised. You don't make a profit by the way in the last financial year by passengers avoiding it like the plague and 'empty seats?'. That's also something of a rarity.
So come on down and see for yourself!
beechbum is offline   Reply
Old 18th Feb 2012, 20:58   #13 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: South Africa
Posts: 167
Quote:
Mind you though, one has to feel dreadfully sorry for the SAA company ethos. Jacob Zuma, the President of South Africa, was so unimpressed with the standards of maintenance and quality control in the airline recently that he felt it necessary on a flight to the USA last month to have two back up aircraft along for the ride. This was a gross traducement by applied innuendo of the high standards of SAA and Mr Zuma has done nothing other than to make himself appear ridiculous whilst demeaning the national flag carrier in the process.
Cavortingcheetah, great post considering that the SAAF chartered an SAA A340 as one of the backup aircraft and his family travelled on SAA to New York. Zuma travelled in the SAAF BBJ.

Quote:
So lets hear it from all the 'proud' SAA pilots. Why not tell us how we are all just jealous because we aren't part of your statefunded cool-kids-club.. Seems your standard line when your thieving management is standing at SARS with the well used begging bowl.
Fuzzy, you must be mates with JG1. Did you guys meet at the same "South African pilots who were rejected by SAA" support group meeting?

Thanks for being Proudly South African
jbayfan is offline   Reply
Old 18th Feb 2012, 21:39   #14 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: A little south of the "Black Sheep" brewery
Posts: 226
This "proudly South African" amuses me... Proud of what? Your 'armed response burglar alarm' industry??!!

SAA... that's the bunch that had two entire crews arrested at LHR some time back, isn't it?

Tell you what: a 6 billion 'any currency' "re-capitalisation" is a bail-out in any normal language!! (Ask the Scottish banks. And are the SA tax-payers asking as many searching questions as the tax-payers that had to bail out the Scottish banks?? Doubt it though, they all get hearded like sheep in SA and believe the party line! How does it go: "bah bah"!!!)

Beechbum: stop lying around on that beach pretending to be a pilot and try some of that Black Sheep; it has real taste, unlike that Castle cats' pee!!!

Back to SAA: maybe they need that bail-out to be able to opperate those routes to China to be able to carry all those money bags for the politburo...?
Trossie is offline   Reply
Old 19th Feb 2012, 10:23   #15 (permalink)


Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Africa
Posts: 2
They must have got their financial advise from "Lehman Brothers" !!!!
jmflying is offline   Reply
Old 19th Feb 2012, 11:39   #16 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Holding somewhere over Gangsters Paradise
Posts: 364
It's a pity actually that an individual who lives near or the to the south of Yorkshire has the audacity to comment on something he obviously knows nothing about.
As for lying on the beach Trossie, at least I can because it's nice and warm here and I ain't freezing my off in some poxy English pub on the mud island!
But for once I agree with you,Castle is a bit like the yellow stuff hence the reason I lie on the beach and consume other fine nectar. Oh and it's nice and warm here....................not the beer that is!!
Oh yes I never pretend to be a pilot that's far too arrogant ......
Now where were we before Trossie interrupted us........
beechbum is offline   Reply
Old 19th Feb 2012, 14:48   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: US
Posts: 10
Bailout!! I repeat it is a bailout SAA is a unproductive government pot that just boils away tax payer money. Everybody in the world can see it except those that do not want to see it. How much did Comair get? how much did One time get?
crew101 is offline   Reply
Old 19th Feb 2012, 20:09   #18 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: RSA
Age: 39
Posts: 16
SAA is not the only airline in the world that is being backed up financially by its parent state. However SAA has shown, for the first time in a very, very long time, that it may be turning a corner in its ability to turn a profit, but isn't quite there without the help of the tax payer, yet. The RSA government also applies various 'strategic' and politically motivated demands on the airline to service routes that the airline would like to give up. The same goes for some of its staff and departments.

This is not the United States of America where a deregulated, private airline industry rides the waves of the economy, without state assistance.

This is South Africa.

This is also PPRuNe, not a political or economic debating forum. Start a rumour about sub-standard training or unsafe flight operations at SAA and then at least the debate will be informative and interesting, albeit cut short by fact.
NextLegUndefined is offline   Reply
Old 20th Feb 2012, 03:01   #19 (permalink)
JG1
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: on root
Posts: 128
What is it, Beechbum? A “recapitilastion”? Yup, you are right there, it’s a recapitulation. Back to SARS for more cash because you’ve squandered the last lot you were given.

Angry and frustrated, jbay? Sure, because MORE of my money is going your way to fund your unearned lifestyle .. and guess what? I’m paying, so I get to be allowed to be. Blow me. Sad ? That the same old posters like yourself trot out the same old lines…’jealous, rejected by SAA, waa, waa, bullsh1t..’ ? Next time you sign on with your untouchable captain/PDI first officer and your beetle-like size-67-assed flight attendants who define inefficiency, spare a thought for those of us who are sadly and jealously pining away smilingly elsewhere at airlines who can proudly say they are standing on their own two feet and making it, as opposed to slavishly defending a tottering, inefficient, bungling, inept parastatal that’s effectively on a par with the SABC in terms of credibility.

It’s a bailout. When other companies need to buy new equipment, they have usually foreseen the need for some time, BUDGETED for it (look that word up, jy-pay & beechbutt), and have carefully applied policies which result in there being enough capital, or creditworthiness, to acquire the aforementioned equipment.

Whatever you want to call it, it’s yet another cash injection from us to you, so be good enough to be grateful and say thank you next time you pass by on the apron. In fact, change your callsign to ‘Thankyou261 Heavy’ Better than 'Bringbuck'...
JG1 is offline   Reply
Old 20th Feb 2012, 05:44   #20 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: 9th Circle
Posts: 36
+1 JG1

I am against any form of state competition against private business in a market related economy. SAA is like any other state enterprise: a bottomless hole with regards to money. State organisations do not have a motive for making profit: public health, police, rail transport etc. only exist to deliver a service, not to make profit. SAA seems no different. Privatise the airline, see how it fares when the competition and survival motivators drive it forward. If they struggle to compete with Emirates, that is not my concern and completely irrelevant: I do not wish to pay out of my pocket so that our "National Flag Carrier" can try to compete against an airline that has them trumped on every count in the market. If it cannot survive on its own, it doesn't deserve to survive: my own employer included.
Artrides is offline   Reply
Reply
 
 
 


Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 17:59.


vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
© 1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network