Clotted, whilst I did not exactly find 89 a barrel of laughs, it has little to do with how I perceive the present situation. Whilst our mob, certainly attained the same result as Joyce, and none of us feel good about it, there was a lesson there, that he choose to ignore. It happened once, and should have never happened again, but it did. This time world wide. A brain snap by someone who should and gets paid to know better. I cannot even imagine someone like Woodward, regardless of his drawl, ever making such a goose of himself. I dont give a ratz if Joyce is a Australian or from Swaziland, I still prefer to listen to Woodward, for no other reason than he makes more sense. I note with interest your age, that would put you as a F/O or young Skipper during 89, so did your ill judgement match mine, going OS for seven years, or did you stay home and help em out?