Apologies to PAS, I only meant that the force that employ us train their own observers. PAARMOs last post says he asks if the job CAN be done by a direct entrant civilian...... Yes it can, any job can be done with the correct amount of training. I was a civilian until the RAF spent a fortune training me. Until that person gains experience of what the man on the ground needs, effectiveness is reduced. It makes more sense to recruit someone who has a bunch of experience in the first place. We are arguing just that point.