JP,
"Seldom (if ever!)"
Dear oh dear, I know it really irritates but when you make sweeping generalisations I am am bound to ask the obvious questions so, just to repeat myself
"
and just tell us again where it was established as to what the crew could see from the flight deck windows"....................which of course you cant answer
And with regards to the IMC thing, was it crew error when you did it?