galdian

None of the following is meant to create offence, simply a view from outside.

Now - hands up those Americans who believed you would go into Iraq and the forces would stay there forever??
No hands?? OK - we've just established you do, indeed, have always had a timetable for pullout; just ain't defined it!
Maybe at some stage you have to "assist" the locals as best you can by making it their responsibility by giving them a timeline to get their sh*t together, give them all the help you can, then progressively reduce the troops.
I would suggest one year pullout 40%, 6 months later 30%, the remainder 6 months later - but just figures to demonstrate an intent.

Should religious tribalisim get the upper hand then that's unfortunate - you've tried, you/they've failed, that's life.
Tribalism is rife throughout the world, don't see huge US forces piling into the inherent tribalism of Africa and try to control the ongoing disturbance (at best), genocide (at worst) that's occurring.

The US has had decades to sort out the border issues, simple really - set up towers with machine guns, confirm in all languages possible that you have soverign territory and after sufficient notice start shooting those who choose to ignore.
Sadly over the decades POTAM's of both walks have talked the talk but...?

The reason for the post:

as an outsider I can only be impressed with the personal traits of the now republican frontrunner JMcC BUT -
-along with the other R candidates he plans to continue a war which has no semblance of a defined ending, at a cost of xxxx to the economy over xxxx of undefined years, not to mention the grief to families who lose their family for these "undefined" reasons;
- JmcC does not want to accept "responsibility" for the failure of the elected representatives over the decades to do something about the border situation, now much easier to talk about expelling people rather than questioning why the elected representatives over that time have taken no definitive action.
Regardless of how you spin it to make people "pay" for the inaction of elected representatives over decades by kicking them out of the country now (on any sort of a graduated timetable) is just plain unfair.

Having thought very highly prior to the R debates of McC the above were a dissapointment.
Not that the D's have me enraptured either!

On a separate note. and very quietly; I do believe the last 7 years under Bush have not left the US either financially, or in perception, a better country - but maybe that's just me.

Interesting discussion
Cheers
galdian